(June 11, 2024 at 5:23 pm)Questor Wrote:

(June 11, 2024 at 3:53 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: How can the movement of a star hundreds or thousands of light years away have any effect on a person? A car driving past will have a greater gravitational field than a distant star, I can't think of any other force that a star can produce. (the same is also true for planets too!)

I don't know, but some people are quite entranced by the idea. 

I believe the point being made was that the liklihood of prophecy being accurate was akin to that of a horoscope being accurate.

I might check your horoscope, if I knew how to do so, but how would I ever discern its accuracy? It would be about your personal life, and how you subjectively saw it to apply to you. 

Prophecy being specifically targeted to the history of a well-tracked group of people allows each prophecy to be checked objectively.

Tell us about Damascus, Egypt, and Tyre. All failed prophecies.

Boru

(June 11, 2024 at 5:23 pm)Questor Wrote: Prophecy being specifically targeted to the history of a well-tracked group of people allows each prophecy to be checked objectively.

(June 11, 2024 at 1:22 pm)Questor Wrote:

(June 11, 2024 at 12:51 pm)Fireball Wrote: All that preaching from the Q-guy. 

Alas, answering a serious question requires a serious answer, and when asked for hard proof, I gave it.

I note you do not dispute what I said, only complain that I said it.

I asked for concrete evidence of your god previously (twice), you responded with abstractions which is not hard proof. Now it appears that you're ignoring me. The only conclusion that I can come to is that you have no evidence to provide. You only have a belief without evidence which is typically called faith.

The core of you faith is no different than any of the other abrahamic religions. Guess what they also lack,................ evidence.

I accept that you have faith and that you feel your beliefs are valid. Whatever gets you thru the night/your life is alright. (John Lennon) 

I (and I think many here) will not validate anything more without the evidence I have previously requested. If you continue to preach I don't think you'll enjoy your time here. Trying to argue a god(s) into existence is ultimately a losing strategy.

(June 11, 2024 at 5:23 pm)Questor Wrote:

(June 11, 2024 at 3:53 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: How can the movement of a star hundreds or thousands of light years away have any effect on a person? A car driving past will have a greater gravitational field than a distant star, I can't think of any other force that a star can produce. (the same is also true for planets too!)

I don't know, but some people are quite entranced by the idea. 

I believe the point being made was that the liklihood of prophecy being accurate was akin to that of a horoscope being accurate.

I might check your horoscope, if I knew how to do so, but how would I ever discern its accuracy? It would be about your personal life, and how you subjectively saw it to apply to you. 

Prophecy being specifically targeted to the history of a well-tracked group of people allows each prophecy to be checked objectively.

Bolded, You should have stopped right there.

(June 11, 2024 at 6:09 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(June 11, 2024 at 5:23 pm)Questor Wrote: I don't know, but some people are quite entranced by the idea. 

I believe the point being made was that the liklihood of prophecy being accurate was akin to that of a horoscope being accurate.

I might check your horoscope, if I knew how to do so, but how would I ever discern its accuracy? It would be about your personal life, and how you subjectively saw it to apply to you. 

Prophecy being specifically targeted to the history of a well-tracked group of people allows each prophecy to be checked objectively.

Tell us about Damascus, Egypt, and Tyre. All failed prophecies.

Boru

As history is still in the process of being made, one cannot say that a particular prophecy has failed, as there are no expiration dates attached to them. 

Many prophecies are as yet unfulfilled, but that does not invalidate them. 

What one can do is note the prophecies that have been fulfilled as the hard proof that there is a G-d, and that he is interested enough in our future to tell us about it.

your idea of proof is not the same as mine, and I also know how to spell god!

(June 12, 2024 at 10:44 am)Questor Wrote:

(June 11, 2024 at 6:09 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Tell us about Damascus, Egypt, and Tyre. All failed prophecies.

Boru

As history is still in the process of being made, one cannot say that a particular prophecy has failed, as there are no expiration dates attached to them. 

Many prophecies are as yet unfulfilled, but that does not invalidate them. 

What one can do is note the prophecies that have been fulfilled as the hard proof that there is a G-d, and that he is interested enough in our future to tell us about it.

What prophecies have been fulfilled?  Who made them, what were the specifics, and when were they filled?

(June 12, 2024 at 11:13 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: your idea of proof is not the same as mine, and I also know how to spell god!

You have not stated your ideas of appropriate proof, so I cannot tell whether they are to be considered valid. I simply state the fact that over two and a half millenium ago it was stated that Israel would be dispersed, and then completely returned to its homeland, both of which did happen.

Is not one's idea of proof in regard to the existence of G-d related to one's willingness to entertain possibilities that you, as well as I, might be wrong in our beliefs? If you do not examine the information available, you are making your decisions based on an emotional reflex related to your belief that you, and only you, could possibly be correct, much as many other religious people do when saying passionately that everyone else is wrong.

I do not expect you to agree with my beliefs, merely to admit that there are facts that cannot be lightly dismissed without appearing, or indeed being, closed-minded, by refusing to examine the proofs offered. It is factual that Israel was warned very long ago that they would suffer dispersion for not obeying YHWH, and also told that they would be brought back into their homeland in due course of time. They were dispersed, and they were brought back.

As for spelling the word 'god' as G-d, in my parlance 'god' refers to the powers and principalities that adhere to specific areas of land, which have tended to be worshiped by the local tribes that inhabited them, while G-d is a reference to YHWH, the Creator, and spelled with a dash to suit the strictest Jewish halacha in regard to writing the word with appropriate care, which when destroyed improperly is a breach of Torah.

(June 12, 2024 at 10:44 am)Questor Wrote:

(June 11, 2024 at 6:09 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Tell us about Damascus, Egypt, and Tyre. All failed prophecies.

Boru

As history is still in the process of being made, one cannot say that a particular prophecy has failed, as there are no expiration dates attached to them. 

Many prophecies are as yet unfulfilled, but that does not invalidate them. 

What one can do is note the prophecies that have been fulfilled as the hard proof that there is a G-d, and that he is interested enough in our future to tell us about it.

Isaiah said Damascus would be utterly and permanently laid waste within ‘three years.’

Ezekiel said Egypt would be utterly destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, that God would dry up the Nile, and that the Egyptians would be scattered among the nations. Nebuchadnezzar is dead, the Nile still flows, and there are still Egyptians in Egypt.

Ezekiel also prophesied that Tyre would be destroyed by the siege of Nebuchadnezzar. The city was besieged for 13 years and did not fall.

Three prophecies with explicit expiration dates, three failed prophecies.

Boru

(June 11, 2024 at 1:58 pm)Questor Wrote:

(June 11, 2024 at 1:40 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Funny thing about prophecy.  The probability of it being fulfilled goes way up when people consciously intend to bring about its fulfillment.  I wonder why?

Yes, prophecy fulfillment should be easy if one has a simple prognostication, and a united group to fulfill the terms stated, with complete control of the events on the ground.  

However, when the prophecies are made over some twenty-five hundred years apart from the fulfillment, and take decades and a mass of people doing just the right thing at the right time even in opposition to it, and with all involved unable to discern when fulfillment is actually possible, or what geopolitical acts might be necessary to create the climate for fulfillment, such prophecy fulfillment argues a level of control outside human hands.

The establishment of Israel was in large part a response to the effects of the holocaust. Are you saying that your god is responsible for genocide? (again?)