Drich, I said that it was one of the reasons that many of us are atheists. I certainly did not come to the conclusion that I have no belief that any gods exist based on one thing.

I can put why I do not believe in pretty simple terms, though. I say this all the time on these forums. I have never been offered, nor encountered, nor discovered, a single convincing reason to believe that a god of any kind actually exists that does not presume that a god already does.

Speaking of the DSS, what do they tell us about preservation of narratives in your OT? Quite a bit, but not much of it any credit to your position. Your fairy tales, like the fairy tales of others, have been altered. Live with it.

Drich Wrote:Again you shouldn't. How many times does it need to be said? The only people who should be responding to my posts are those who seek a relatively quick biblical understanding of God.

Let me rephrase since you seemed to have missed my point. If your interpretation is wrong, as you've admitted it is, why should anyone listen to you?

(April 23, 2012 at 8:21 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

Drich Wrote:Again you shouldn't. How many times does it need to be said? The only people who should be responding to my posts are those who seek a relatively quick biblical understanding of God.

Let me rephrase since you seemed to have missed my point. If your interpretation is wrong, as you've admitted it is, why should anyone listen to you?

Let Me rephrase since you seemed to miss the point I was making. No one is completely right in their religious efforts, including me.

The bible tells us this in rom 3:
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

10 As it is written:


“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”[b]
13 “Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”; [c]
“The poison of asps is under their lips”; [d]
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”[f]
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[g]

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Not to rephrase but to repeat: No one should follow what I have to say unless they want a relatively quick biblically based understanding of God.

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(April 23, 2012 at 6:52 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Speaking of the DSS, what do they tell us about preservation of narratives in your OT? Quite a bit, but not much of it any credit to your position. Your fairy tales, like the fairy tales of others, have been altered. Live with it.

care to back up your empty assertion?

http://www.apologeticspress.org/APConten...rticle=357
http://www.bibleprobe.org/compare.html
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/31_masorite.html

You know there were "other" writings found with the scrolls that backed the OT of the bible. Maybe your source stopped his assessment there at these writings, and did not get into the rest of the scrolls found at Qumran.

Drich Wrote:Not to rephrase but to repeat: No one should follow what I have to say unless they want a relatively quick biblically based understanding of God.

I believe you mean your interpretation of a biblically based god, which is what I'm trying to get at. If you admit that everyone is wrong in their interpretation, what makes you assert that yours is valid enough that it's worth listening to?

Quote:How old are the scrolls? Between 408 and 44 BCE.

Even Jews understand that the DSS were written between the mid 2d century BCE ( c 140 or so) and 70 AD. They thus post date the Septuagint by a century or more and are of uncertain authorship based on recent scholarship.

Only xtian assholes try to shoehorn them back to a time prior to the Hasmonean period.

Thanks for confirming for me that you are, in fact, one of those assholes.


For the people who are interested in reality around here.

http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah

Quote:The Great Isaiah Scroll (1QIsaa) is one of the original seven Dead Sea Scrolls discovered in Qumran in 1947. It is the largest (734 cm) and best preserved of all the biblical scrolls, and the only one that is almost complete. The 54 columns contain all 66 chapters of the Hebrew version of the biblical Book of Isaiah. Dating from ca. 125 BCE, it is also one of the oldest of the Dead Sea Scrolls, some one thousand years older than the oldest manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible known to us before the scrolls' discovery.

The version of the text is generally in agreement with the Masoretic or traditional version codified in medieval codices, such as the Aleppo Codex, but it contains many variant readings, alternative spellings, scribal errors, and corrections. Unlike most of the biblical scrolls from Qumran, it exhibits a very full orthography (spelling), revealing how Hebrew was pronounced in the Second Temple Period. Around twenty additional copies of the Book of Isaiah were also found at Qumran (one more copy was discovered further south at Wadi Muraba'at),

(April 23, 2012 at 9:36 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

Drich Wrote:Not to rephrase but to repeat: No one should follow what I have to say unless they want a relatively quick biblically based understanding of God.

I believe you mean your interpretation of a biblically based god, which is what I'm trying to get at. If you admit that everyone is wrong in their interpretation, what makes you assert that yours is valid enough that it's worth listening to?

Again and Again! it is not unless you want a quick answer. If you want your own answer then You petition God, and study the bible for yourself.

Don't have 20 years of patience for that? Want a relatively quick answer? Then ask me a biblically based question, and see what happens. If you do want one the move on. I have no authority besides what you lend me. As commanded by Christ. As modeled by the apostles over and over again.

I know the argument you are desperately trying to make, what you apparently do not understand is the catholic model where one is compelled by dominion and Authority is not present in biblical Christianity. The truth is only provide to those who ask and seek it but to no one else.

How do i know what I teach is absolute truth? I don't that is the point. It is to have you Ask Seek and Knock to your limits end for your own all encompassing understanding of it.

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(April 23, 2012 at 10:13 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:How old are the scrolls? Between 408 and 44 BCE.

Even Jews understand that the DSS were written between the mid 2d century BCE ( c 140 or so) and 70 AD. They thus post date the Septuagint by a century or more and are of uncertain authorship based on recent scholarship.

Only xtian assholes try to shoehorn them back to a time prior to the Hasmonean period.

Thanks for confirming for me that you are, in fact, one of those assholes.


For the people who are interested in reality around here.

http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah

Quote:The Great Isaiah Scroll (1QIsaa) is one of the original seven Dead Sea Scrolls discovered in Qumran in 1947. It is the largest (734 cm) and best preserved of all the biblical scrolls, and the only one that is almost complete. The 54 columns contain all 66 chapters of the Hebrew version of the biblical Book of Isaiah. Dating from ca. 125 BCE, it is also one of the oldest of the Dead Sea Scrolls, some one thousand years older than the oldest manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible known to us before the scrolls' discovery.

The version of the text is generally in agreement with the Masoretic or traditional version codified in medieval codices, such as the Aleppo Codex, but it contains many variant readings, alternative spellings, scribal errors, and corrections. Unlike most of the biblical scrolls from Qumran, it exhibits a very full orthography (spelling), revealing how Hebrew was pronounced in the Second Temple Period. Around twenty additional copies of the Book of Isaiah were also found at Qumran (one more copy was discovered further south at Wadi Muraba'at),

You do know that there were many other scrolls discovered at Qumran after the original 7 do you not? Maybe you should take a few hours and look up all that has been discovered there, and when your post can reflect a broader understanding of what has been found. Then we can talk responsibly about whatever you wish to bring up.

If you cannot make your case, and would rather continue to appeal for us to petition your fantasy for answers, then why attempt to make the case at all Drich?

(April 23, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Rhythm Wrote: If you cannot make your case, and would rather continue to appeal for us to petition your fantasy for answers, then why attempt to make the case at all Drich?

The answers provided are to ONLY those who seek them.

.........