(June 17, 2012 at 8:54 pm)Shell B Wrote: That's not true, Gringo. A withdrawal is a physical symptom caused by cessation of a drug. A rapid decrease in serotonin causes physical and mental symptoms, thus withdrawal. Withdrawal isn't always the shakes. Why do you think they call SSRI withdrawal withdrawal? It is precisely the same thing, a decreased amount of serotonin. By precisely, I mean exactly the same thing.

The sympthoms you feel the days after you use MDMA, are not withdrawal Shell, they are analogous to the hangover you feel after you abuse alcohol. Alcohol causes a liver congestion that creates those very known sympthoms. MDMA on the other hand causes an overuse of serotonin, that is recovered over the next days.

Addictive drugs like opiates, meth, cocaine, etc after regular use, block the serotonin receivers on the brain, meaning you in the long term can only get the feeling of pleasure and satisfaction with another dose of the drug. Its completely different and people that have gone through an addiction know this very well, since it takes a long time (years) for the individual to regain some of the hability to feel the everyday pleasure we get from our activities.

Quote:Now, all of this is irrelevant to my point that is not up to strangers to chastise adults for personal choices. Drug use =/= addiction.

Okay, perhaps the way I've gone about it makes it look like chastizing, but the point was made and this discussion only went in a good direction by my standarts, since we've discussed the problems that drug use may lead to. My point was directed to the (perhaps unintentional) advertizement of opiates, and these do cause addiction by regular use, along with nasty physical sympthoms. It may have been directed to an adult, but you know better than me that not all forum users possibly reading this are adults.

Adults are free to do whatever they want with their lives, that's a given, but posting how much one loves opiates, without speaking of the consequences of said drugs, may influence a young reader to use them.

(June 18, 2012 at 5:20 am)LastPoet Wrote: MDMA on the other hand causes an overuse of serotonin, that is recovered over the next days.

And cessation of an SSRI causes a decrease in serotonin, which is soon balanced out. Yet, it is still called withdrawal. You can become addicted to the increase of serotonin. Your body can easily become addicted to the chemicals it creates.

(June 18, 2012 at 10:50 am)Shell B Wrote: And cessation of an SSRI causes a decrease in serotonin, which is soon balanced out. Yet, it is still called withdrawal. You can become addicted to the increase of serotonin. Your body can easily become addicted to the chemicals it creates.

Or, as I call them: black holes in my memoire

I like the way this has basically just become a chat about drugs! I guess that says it all about this forum's take on NDEs (DMT) and I can't blame you to be honest - it would explain it pretty well.

I messaged Ian McCormack and told him about DMT in case he doesn't know... I don't wanna break the poor guy's heart but I think discovering truth is so important. Who knows, maybe I/we're missing something and he IS right... I await his reply anyway

I doubt mentioning DMT to him is going to sway him at all. These experiences are very personal and very real. It will take a lot more than that to coinvince someone who believes they had an NDE that it was merely a drug trip. Also, some people fear not being able to trust their senses.

(June 18, 2012 at 5:02 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I doubt mentioning DMT to him is going to sway him at all. These experiences are very personal and very real. It will take a lot more than that to coinvince someone who believes they had an NDE that it was merely a drug trip. Also, some people fear not being able to trust their senses.

hm, I guess. I would advise those people to just take DMT and see if it's similar. And yeah you're right they do seem very personal and real.

I mean, there are some qualities that seem to suggest something more... I don't know...

Oo I got a reply from Ian!

He says that 30 years ago when he was an atheist when all this happened he did look into this stuff but he says that he remains convinced of what happened to him and that he has "walked with the Lord for 30 years" and this seems to have strengthened his faith.

Well, it seems he has done his homework on this, and I admire his conviction and what he has to share!

I'm still agnostic of course, but I love to learn and I'm sure there's plenty more! hehe


EDIT -- Oh, I also replied and amongst other things said that I thought his description of Heaven was absolutely beautiful - probably one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard! I really hope that is true ofc but I have my doubts! Additionally, if Heaven is true then that probably means Hell is true and I really hope that isn't the case! >.<

(June 19, 2012 at 12:46 am)hoppimike Wrote: EDIT -- Oh, I also replied and amongst other things said that I thought his description of Heaven was absolutely beautiful - probably one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard! I really hope that is true ofc but I have my doubts! Additionally, if Heaven is true then that probably means Hell is true and I really hope that isn't the case! >.<

I have it on good account that The Shire in Middle-earth is quite lovely. You should check it out, but make sure to keep an open mind about it.

(June 19, 2012 at 1:20 pm)cato123 Wrote:

(June 19, 2012 at 12:46 am)hoppimike Wrote: EDIT -- Oh, I also replied and amongst other things said that I thought his description of Heaven was absolutely beautiful - probably one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard! I really hope that is true ofc but I have my doubts! Additionally, if Heaven is true then that probably means Hell is true and I really hope that isn't the case! >.<

I have it on good account that The Shire in Middle-earth is quite lovely. You should check it out, but make sure to keep an open mind about it.

D-reck says you get your own spaceship. BONUS.

Regarding the OP: So, what if the dude had asked Jupiter, Amon-Ra or Allah for help instead of Jesus? Would he have stayed in 'hell' or would he have woken up? And would he have become something else than a chrisitan? No? Oh, I get it, christianity is after all the one and only True Religion™ after all.. What a load of bullshit.