(August 3, 2012 at 8:39 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Meh, what one person calls a given I call bullshit. Takes all kinds.

I'd be right with you normally Rhythm but when I've specifically asked for a christian opinion in the OP then you can't complain when you are given one.

(August 3, 2012 at 8:52 pm)Napoleon Wrote:

(August 3, 2012 at 8:39 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Meh, what one person calls a given I call bullshit. Takes all kinds.

I'd be right with you normally Rhythm but when I've specifically asked for a christian opinion in the OP then you can't complain when you are given one.

Of course he can,and he may. His choice to bang his head against the wall,

(August 3, 2012 at 7:41 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote:

(August 2, 2012 at 11:39 pm)Cinjin Wrote: I'm not an atheist.

LOL 1-0

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(August 3, 2012 at 6:48 am)spockrates Wrote: Einstein had to imagine his theory of relativity before anyone believed it was real. Proponents of string theory are now imagining something else.

:p

How dare you even compare Einstein with fairy believers imagining an afterlife based on zero reasoning.

Norfolk:

Of all the libraries and databases in all the world, what percentage of the information they hold would you say you know and understand? Less than 1%?

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(August 3, 2012 at 8:32 am)Napoleon Wrote:

(August 2, 2012 at 8:34 pm)spockrates Wrote: But as long as we are imagining, why limit your imagination to just heaven and hell? Catholics, for example, believe in a third destination called Purgatoy. Most end up there, they believe, and all eventually leave there and exit to heaven.

Purgatory isn't even supported by the bible. It's bullshit the catholics made up to try and account for scenarios such as the one I described in the OP.

Sorry, I don't buy it.

I believe there is evidence to support it. Would you like me to quote a biblical passage I have in mind, or would I just be wasting your time?

(August 3, 2012 at 8:32 am)Napoleon Wrote:

(August 3, 2012 at 6:48 am)spockrates Wrote: Einstein had to imagine his theory of relativity before anyone believed it was real. Proponents of string theory are now imagining something else.

The difference between Einstein's theory of relativity and theories about god though?

Oh yeah, that little thing known as scientific evidence.

But not at first, Napoleon. His theory of general relativity was just something he imagined, which was supported only by his mathematical equations. The evidence of scientific experimentation done by others came years later. The same is true of string theory. Most physicists agree there is no evidence of scientific experimentation to support it.

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(August 3, 2012 at 9:07 am)Zen Badger Wrote:

(August 3, 2012 at 7:41 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: How dare you even compare Einstein with fairy believers imagining an afterlife based on zero reasoning.

I would differentiate between imagination and the blind cleaving unto an outdated mythology which requires a distinct lack of imagination or questioning.

Would you say I lack both imagination and questioning?

(August 4, 2012 at 8:11 am)spockrates Wrote: Norfolk:

Of all the libraries and databases in all the world, what percentage of the information they hold would you say you know and understand? Less than 1%?

Hmmm (playing your obvious game for a little while), I'd say I certainly possess less than 1% of the knowledge in the world...

Don't tell me, because I self admittedly know so little, how could I possibly criticise a religious fantasist imagining stuff based on little knowledge? Right?

(August 4, 2012 at 9:13 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote:

(August 4, 2012 at 8:11 am)spockrates Wrote: Norfolk:

Of all the libraries and databases in all the world, what percentage of the information they hold would you say you know and understand? Less than 1%?

Hmmm (playing your obvious game for a little while), I'd say I certainly possess less than 1% of the knowledge in the world...

Don't tell me, because I self admittedly know so little, how could I possibly criticise a religious fantasist imagining stuff based on little knowledge? Right?

Thanks for playing along!



I'm not telling. Just asking. So how do you know that in the more than 99% of what you know nothing about there is no good evidence for the existence of God? I ask a similar question of myself. There might be evidence God does not exist, or if he, she, or it exists, he, she, or it is not what I presume him, her, or it to be. You see?

Argument from (perceived) ignorance. Classic god of the gaps (and an implication of burden shifting as well). Bravo Spock. Is that what you wanted us to see?

It isn't what we don't know that leads me, personally, to conclude that your god is a hoax, a sham. It's what we do know. If those gaps which you are so fond of (and whatever you imagine them to be) contained a god, it wouldn't be yours.

(August 4, 2012 at 8:11 am)spockrates Wrote: I believe there is evidence to support it. Would you like me to quote a biblical passage I have in mind, or would I just be wasting your time?

Unless it specifically mentions a place called purgatory by name, describes it, tells us why people go there etc. then yeah, you're probably wasting your time.

If it's as vague as most other bible verses I get quoted with then I'm not interested at all.

Quote:

(August 3, 2012 at 8:32 am)Napoleon Wrote: The difference between Einstein's theory of relativity and theories about god though?

Oh yeah, that little thing known as scientific evidence.

But not at first, Napoleon. His theory of general relativity was just something he imagined, which was supported only by his mathematical equations. The evidence of scientific experimentation done by others came years later. The same is true of string theory. Most physicists agree there is no evidence of scientific experimentation to support it.

Are you trying to be this dumb? (see bolded to recognise how Einstein's theories differ from religious theory)

Einstein had his theories accepted because they made sense, could be proven mathematically and indeed, like you said had experiments confirm it perhaps years later.

But to compare this with any religious theory, which has no solid mathematical principles, other than magic, no evidence, other than some ancient old tomes, and has been trying to explain things (unsuccessfully) for thousands of years but still hasn't succeeded as far as science is concerned, is totally out of whack.

And as for imagination? Einstein didn't just wake up one morning and magically come up with his theories off the top of his head. He came up with them to try and solve specific mathematical, and physics based problems.

Again, this is in no way similar to the mindless imagination of religious theories. Einstein using his imagination to come up with his theories, at least had some grounding in reality. Unlike religion, which is made up out of thin air.

(August 4, 2012 at 10:38 am)Napoleon Wrote: Again, this is in no way similar to the mindless imagination of religious theories.

Hmmm, like your mindless imagination in the OP?

Are we running a clinic today?

Nap says -mindless imagination-
Random apologist retorts with -you too-

For my part, I don't know if I could claim that the various contributors to this myth were leveraging a "mindless imagination". It's pretty imaginative stuff. Similarly, the people who accept it today probably have fairly hefty imaginations to swallow it (albeit a pronounced lack of curiosity does seem to be at play).

That's random antagonist...