Lion IRC Wrote:RE: Prayer?
I'm always baffled by atheists who bring children into this world where, apparently, there is a so-called "problem" of pain.

Why would they do that?

Because it points out the callouness of your god's idle hands when it comes to the suffering of the most innocent among us, which is in itself an argument against a benevolent god.

(August 11, 2012 at 3:08 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: I'm always baffled by atheists who bring children into this world where, apparently, there is a so-called "problem" of pain.

Why would they do that?

Because we did not create this world, or the pain and suffering in it, we do not know how our children's lives will pan out, and we're willing (most times downright over-joyed) to lift a fucking finger to help them if bad things do happen?


Que your heavenly absentee.....

(August 11, 2012 at 3:08 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: I'm always baffled by atheists who bring children into this world where, apparently, there is a so-called "problem" of pain.

Why would they do that?

And I'm always baffled by believers who don't kill their children when they're still toddlers. This would assure their children entry into heaven! Why take a chance that the kids will grow up to become sinners and end up spending eternity in hell?

Apparently the jesus freaks need help....as usual.

(August 11, 2012 at 12:45 pm)Undeceived Wrote:

(August 11, 2012 at 12:51 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: Right ok, lets replace the childs demand for ice-cream, which by the way is a rather stupid comparison but whatever, with "Help me Daddy, I'm dying from starvation and aids in a poverty stricken country."
What then?

You're still demanding physical, trivial things. God, our Father, provides for our spiritual needs. It is as if the child is seeking toys like legos for his own personal world in his room, as opposed to real life necessities. Life is in place to point us to God. Sufferings are only as bad as your feelings about them--until they reach the point where you die. And death is just the beginning of eternity in heaven. What's more, once we get to heaven we'll realize how many "sufferings" we had every day, just in different form. You look at famine and consider it worse than whatever you experience. Ask a poor individual if they feel their lives are multiplicatively tougher. On what do you base your standard for a good life? Do you consider your American life better, and are you more content for it? Why do studies show many impoverished families to be happier than millionaires? Or is it your outlook that matters? Your feelings and expectations are like glasses through which you see the world. If we don't worry our next meal, we find something else to worry and stress about, like how irritating a co-worker is. Shouldn't we just be grateful to have a job? You expect an African family to be grateful. The moment an African family steps into an American lifestyle, their standards change. They become dissatisfied with the quality of their schools or how far a drive work is. Now turn this African family into Billionaires. Their mint coat ripped, and they're shouting at the dry cleaner for being so klutzy! Their Ferrari was keyed last night. Oh dear, we need to get it repaired first thing in the morning! Even if everyone on this forum comes from similar circumstances, you can't use that common condition as a basis for what life should be. "Our way" is not "the way." Just how few sufferings would it take for you to entertain the notion of a good God? Everyone middle-income? All of us sitting on plush chairs drinking magically-appearing slurpies? Draw a line. How far must God interfere with the free order of things to be considered worth worshiping?
The problem with debating "sufferings" is the assumed definition of what a suffering is. You pick massive human needs like starvation and poverty in an attempt to get me on common ground. The discussion would be more fruitful with terms like "earthly contentment" and "spiritual fulfillment." I hope I've made it clear that anybody, even a poor and hungry person, can be content on earth. And everyone can find spiritual fulfillment in Christ's death and resurrection.

I'm demanding you answer the question instead of giving me your unrequested and uninformed opinions.
Starvation and aids are not comparable to "legos" and definitely not spiritually fulfilling to a one year old who can barely process the world around him.
The fact you could even draw such a comparison is very revealing of your character.
The fact of the matter is there are hundreds of thousands of children in this type of situation right now. By the time I've finished typing this retort many of them will have died. In pain, in horror, in darkness.
They won't ever find fulfilment of any sort, they don't even know the meaning of the word. Literally. They're not even capable of stringing sentences together, they haven't been alive long enough. Even if they had they'd be far too weak to utter a word. They didn't choose this, they were born into it. They weren't lucky enough to have the privledges you did. Do you think you are special? That God chose to give you privileges because you are in someway better? Presumably you must. Let me correct you, you're not special. You're just some jackass with an ego bigger than his intellect.
They can't retort to your ignorant, disgusting remarks... but I can.
You know nothing of what you speak. You've never even tasted desperate and you have no right to call the unearned and undeserved luxuries you have in your possession insignificant.
Normally I'd present my arguement with more dignity but I'm not in a mood to suffer fools and you robed this thread of that the second you took away the dignity of those who would pray just for a chance at life.

I'll ask you in a simpler fashion; You're an all-powerful being, supposedly omnipresent, omniscient and benevolent
You have the power to allow an innocent child to live instead of dying a slow, agonizing death due to circumstances beyond his control. To not take his life away before he can even know what life is. What do you do?
What is your answer?

If you have any kind of self-respect or intellectual honesty you will not attempt another deflection.

Undeceived Wrote:The problem with debating "sufferings" is the assumed definition of what a suffering is. You pick massive human needs like starvation and poverty in an attempt to get me on common ground. The discussion would be more fruitful with terms like "earthly contentment" and "spiritual fulfillment." I hope I've made it clear that anybody, even a poor and hungry person, can be content on earth. And everyone can find spiritual fulfillment in Christ's death and resurrection.

Okay, let's play this game. How does someone slowly and painfully dying of cancer at a young age find "earthly contentment?" When a child is being raped, what is god doing for their "spiritual fulfillment?"

(August 11, 2012 at 10:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

I always read the expression on that kids face as:
"Are you fucking serious?"

I read it as " I'm hungry. Fuck you, god."

I see the kid saying F-you self righteous westerners for blaming God for not taking up your slack! If you know I am hungery then why are you not doing more to feed me!