(August 12, 2012 at 12:40 am)Thor Wrote:

(August 12, 2012 at 12:11 am)Drich Wrote: I see the kid saying F-you self righteous westerners for blaming God for not taking up your slack! If you know I am hungery then why are you not doing more to feed me!

Weak-ass argument.

In most cases kids are starving because of corrupt governments who use food as a weapon. We couldn't feed the kids no matter how much we want to or try. Your deity, on the other hand, being omnipotent and all powerful, could feed these starving kids without so much as lifting a finger. So don't go trying to push off starving kids on us. If I was all powerful and omnipotent I would feed every one of them. But I'm sure you'll have some pathetic excuse to let your "loving" deity off the hook.

My arguement is weak? Did you read yours?!?!?

"Because we can't Feed everyone, due to war or political posturing (again a issue with man not God) we/I won't feed anyone! and blame the whole mess and our/my laziness on God."

Yeah that arguement is much better since you supposedly do not believe in God, meaning that their won't be any help till you offered it anyway. Way to think that one through.

Whereas the asshole who does believe in his super sky- fairy gives him a pass for being a murderous cunt.

Interesting take on your god there, son.

(August 12, 2012 at 5:15 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 12, 2012 at 12:40 am)Thor Wrote: Weak-ass argument.

In most cases kids are starving because of corrupt governments who use food as a weapon. We couldn't feed the kids no matter how much we want to or try. Your deity, on the other hand, being omnipotent and all powerful, could feed these starving kids without so much as lifting a finger. So don't go trying to push off starving kids on us. If I was all powerful and omnipotent I would feed every one of them. But I'm sure you'll have some pathetic excuse to let your "loving" deity off the hook.

My arguement is weak? Did you read yours?!?!?

"Because we can't Feed everyone, due to war or political posturing (again a issue with man not God) we/I won't feed anyone! and blame the whole mess and our/my laziness on God."

Yeah that arguement is much better since you supposedly do not believe in God, meaning that their won't be any help till you offered it anyway. Way to think that one through.

Except that he doesn't say that at all.

(August 12, 2012 at 6:03 am)ElDinero Wrote: Aid from Western countries to the developing world is enormous. Thor has already outlined one of the main reasons that it has a limited effect.

Not western countries. You. How many have you feed? How much 'eldinero' have YOU given? D-bags who use pictures like this to blame God for their own personal short commings, for their Personal lack of effort.

Quote:Even if it's true that other PEOPLE could do more, the question still remains: Why would God intervene in a football game and not in the suffering of millions?

Do you think Tim Teebo is a phrophet of God and speaks for God when He says "God helped us win." Or Is Tim simply praising God for His win as ha has been instructed to do?

Quote: Your response doesn't at all answer this question, it just shifts the blame and asserts that it's not God's problem to help these people.

The answer to the question the orginal poster sought is found in the Parable of the talents. Long story short the master when away and left us incharge of His estate. To each He gave a responsiablity. (Feeding the hungery is the responsiablity of all of us to a degree, but more specifically of those who see a great need. They have this responsiablity for if we see an need like this it is up to us to fill or do our part to fill that need.) when the master returned a rewarded all of the faithful servants who honored what was given to them too care for, and punished the one who burried his 'responsiablity' in the sand and did nothing with what he was given.

Quote:Why is it our slack and not his when realistically only he has the power to change it?

This may have been a legitmate excuse 1000 years ago, but for this generation their will be Hell to pay for using it now. Especially if their hyprocrisy demans an account from God to do something when they themselves have done nothing.

Quote:God - All powerful
People - Limited

Limited in the way of completing the task set before them.

Quote:Can this be any clearer?

Nope.

---

(August 12, 2012 at 11:34 am)RaphielDrake Wrote:

(August 12, 2012 at 12:11 am)Drich Wrote: I see the kid saying F-you self righteous westerners for blaming God for not taking up your slack! If you know I am hungery then why are you not doing more to feed me!

OH *right*. Because there aren't systems in place to give them food and medicine which we regularly donate to.
Well done Drich, you just demonstrated why every person here is more morale than your fictional God.

Are these "systems" (Most Christian in orgin I might add) enough? do they feed everyone in need? Do they have all the funding they need? Are they with out need for volunteers, medical supplies, trained construction workers to doctors? Or is there more to be done? Enough to include someone like you Ralphie, and your skill set? Or is complaining that a God you do not believe in, is not doing what you think He is supposed to do. Is that enough to fill the stomache of that kid and the thousands like him?

If you do not believe in God then how can you judge a "Non existant being" For doing the exact same thing you yourself is doing? Isn't that hypocritical?

---

(August 12, 2012 at 4:29 pm)WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth Wrote:

(August 3, 2012 at 12:16 am)Drich Wrote: Does everyone know the difference between chanting, petition and prayer?

No.

Then simply read the 20 or so pages of dialog and you will be well versed!

---

(August 12, 2012 at 4:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(August 12, 2012 at 12:11 am)Drich Wrote: I see the kid saying F-you self righteous westerners for blaming God for not taking up your slack! If you know I am hungery then why are you not doing more to feed me!

These people are farmers, you know. All your fucking god has to do is make it rain.

I guess that is too much for him, huh?

Many who are suffering are displaced farmers who are held up in refugee camps, and if it did rain (as it does here) it would make things much worse.

(August 12, 2012 at 5:31 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 12, 2012 at 11:34 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: OH *right*. Because there aren't systems in place to give them food and medicine which we regularly donate to.
Well done Drich, you just demonstrated why every person here is more morale than your fictional God.

Are these "systems" (Most Christian in orgin I might add) enough? do they feed everyone in need? Do they have all the funding they need? Are they with out need for volunteers, medical supplies, trained construction workers to doctors? Or is there more to be done? Enough to include someone like you Ralphie, and your skill set? Or is complaining that a God you do not believe in, is not doing what you think He is supposed to do. Is that enough to fill the stomache of that kid and the thousands like him?

If you do not believe in God then how can you judge a "Non existant being" For doing the exact same thing you yourself is doing? Isn't that hypocritical?

Most Christian? *Really?* Are they Drich? Is Oxfam?
Or how about;
Humane society: http://www.hsus.org/

Natural Resources Defence Fund: http://www.nrdc.org/

Disabled American Veterens: http://www.dav.org/cst/index.html

UNICEF: http://www.supportunicef.org/site/pp.asp…

ACCION: http://www.accion.org/about_our_mission.…

America's Second Harvest Network".
http://www.secondharvest.org/who_we_help…


Are they Christian? You show off your ignorance far too readily for my liking Drich.

The fact of the matter is what little good is done for the poor, the weak and the needy is by humans. Not by your "God". It matters very little what religion a charity proclaims itself to be, God has not directly intervened. It has been through the hardship of those who care enough to allow their fellow man a chance at life.
Such compassion seems devoid from the almighty who could save the countless children which humanity doesn't reach in time... but deems it unworthy of his attention.
Either he is malevolent or he does not exist and I don't think you can begin to prove otherwise.
And just so you know I do infact do my part so yeah... backfire much?

(August 12, 2012 at 5:46 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote:

(August 12, 2012 at 5:31 pm)Drich Wrote: Are these "systems" (Most Christian in orgin I might add) enough? do they feed everyone in need? Do they have all the funding they need? Are they with out need for volunteers, medical supplies, trained construction workers to doctors? Or is there more to be done? Enough to include someone like you Ralphie, and your skill set? Or is complaining that a God you do not believe in, is not doing what you think He is supposed to do. Is that enough to fill the stomache of that kid and the thousands like him?

If you do not believe in God then how can you judge a "Non existant being" For doing the exact same thing you yourself is doing? Isn't that hypocritical?

Most Christian? *Really?* Are they Drich? Is Oxfam?
Or how about;
Humane society: http://www.hsus.org/

Natural Resources Defence Fund: http://www.nrdc.org/

Disabled American Veterens: http://www.dav.org/cst/index.html

UNICEF: http://www.supportunicef.org/site/pp.asp…

ACCION: http://www.accion.org/about_our_mission.…

America's Second Harvest Network".
http://www.secondharvest.org/who_we_help…


Are they Christian? You show off your ignorance far too readily for my liking Drich.

The fact of the matter is what little good is done for the poor, the weak and the needy is by humans. Not by your "God". It matters very little what religion a charity proclaims itself to be, God has not directly intervened. It has been through the hardship of those who care enough to allow their fellow man a chance at life.
Such compassion seems devoid from the almighty who could save the countless children which humanity doesn't reach in time... but deems it unworthy of his attention.
Either he is malevolent or he does not exist and I don't think you can begin to prove otherwise.
And just so you know I do infact do my part so yeah... backfire much?

"Most Christian in orgin I might add."

You seem to be having trouble with one of the words I used in my last post.
(see defination 2)
most
adj \ˈmōst\
Definition of MOST
1: greatest in quantity, extent, or degree <the most ability>
2: the majority of <most people>
See most defined for English-language learners »
See most defined for kids »
Examples of MOST
Choosing a color took the most time.
That family owned the most land.
Unfortunately the negative aspects of our schools get the most attention.

---

(August 12, 2012 at 1:06 am)Skepsis Wrote: ...but it's fire, though. It is a place of suffering, typically described as a "lake of fire". If I'm off, just summarize "Hell".

Yes there is a Lake of Fire and Satan and his angels will burn their forever, but 'Hell' is not Only described as a lake of Fire. Hell is seperation from God on an eternal scale. the Pit, The void, The Darkkness where their is weeping and gnashing of teeth, The Grave all describe Hell. The only common thread is that it is eternal seperation from God and creation.

Quote:"So everything we do is a part of his plan...?"

The fact that we are free from His Expressed Will is apart of His plan.

Quote:Justice is a concept, but what you present is the antitheses of justice.

you usage of the Word 'justice' describes a 'fairness' that is based in popular morality. (it's what you think fair to be) This is not justice. true Justice is absolute, and not subject to interpertation.

Quote: A just God would be incapable of creating a place of infinite suffering for finite crimes.

Wait till you get to Hell there's a place with limitless suffering. there are limits in this life our soceities ensure that.

Quote:The crime of unbelief being one, a just God would be required to present evidence of himself as to avoid the possibility that there was a person that never sinned but didn't believe he existed.

Un belief is not a crime it is a choice. People Choose to be with God or seperated from Him.

Quote:Redemption is only an option if you believe there is something to redeem. Because God hasn't evidenced himself to millions in a satisfactory way, he has failed to show that we need redemption.

Hence: Redemption to all those who Seek it.
As you have pointed out not all will seek redemption.

Quote:On that note, you are screwed in the head if you believe we need to be redeemed for something that your God planned from the start.

How so? For the 'plan' was to provide choice.

Quote:What?? You yourself said that everything goes according to God's plan. There cannot be free will in that scenario. (Freedom to choose yor own actions).

Did you choose to remain outside of the redemption offered or not?
You had no choice on whether or not you will sin, but you do get to choose whether or not you will live in your sins.

Quote:You chose to accept redemption... according to the plan God laid out for you. So no, I don't see the choice. You committing the logical fallacy "special pleading" over and over when you exempt one attribute or another from God or his plan to allow it to get away with internal flaws. For example, you say that everything goes by God's plan. However, you also say that there is choice and that you can choose. So, which is it?

Both, God's Plan is that you have a Choice.
Oh and you might want to read up on the fallacy you have misidentified.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading

Quote:So you didn't believe/except him until after you asked him to help you accept him? Really? That assumes that you believed at the same time you didn't.

No. I simply put it out there that if their was a God, that I have my eyes and ears opened. (I didn't just appeal to the God of the bible. i put it out there and God responded as His promises indicate He would.)

Quote:It's all in the plan. Except this... and that... and this...

Can you give examples of "this and that"

Quote:Way to assume that I am not doing anything for those that starve-

I have worked in this field for a very long time and know how people in and out of the faith serve in it as well, and how they generally carry their works. your off the cuff introduction to this subject did not follow either of the typical examples. you simply fell into this conversation and have been 'reacting' since we started. (you have no experiences in anything you have discussed)

Quote: and while I'm on the topic, why don't you sell your stuff and give the money to the needy,

I have given everything on many occasions, and it has been given back to me 10x over. I have given when I had nothing to give. If I see a need that I can fill, I fill it.

Quote:then spend less time on an atheist site and more time helping those in need.

I see a need here for the Spiritually starving. One that far exceeds the needs of the physical starvation that boy endured. For there are many willing to give time and money to help people like that. (for that is a job anyone can do) But, here Their are very few who are willing and able to spend time in places like this and put fourth the effort to feed the Spiritually Hungery.

Quote:In a world without a God, those people starve because there are not enough people willing to help them or that can help them. In a world with a God where it is God's plan for them to starve, the blame lies on your God.

It is God's plan to give you oppertunity to fill the needs you see.

Quote:So now you are going to redefine love?
I can't tell you what love is. Love is subjective. I can tell you what love isn't- love isn't allowing the deaths of billions. Love isn't allowing suffering and starvation. Love isn't allowing natural sufferings to occur. Nor is this justice, as these people didn't deserve the life that was dealt to them.

I did do this very thing in my "God does not love you..." thread.

Quote:Actually, no he didn't. Remember the whole plan thing? I have no choice.

See this is what makes me question your basic comperhension skills. For i must have said the "Plan thing" was to give you choice 1/2 a dozen times or more from the beginning..

Quote:And I can just as easily tell you you made that wrong one.
Really, getting on here to redefine prayer to what you suppose scripture says it is is stupid. You believe scripture says this- I get it. Many, many others believe scripture says prayer can cause changes in the world. Others still believe it appeases God, allowing him to cause miracles.

then simply ask them to provide book Chapter and verse for their assertion.

Quote:And guess what? They can all support it with the same Bible.

Again Book Chapter and Verse.

(August 12, 2012 at 10:47 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 12, 2012 at 5:46 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Most Christian? *Really?* Are they Drich? Is Oxfam?
Or how about;
Humane society: http://www.hsus.org/

Natural Resources Defence Fund: http://www.nrdc.org/

Disabled American Veterens: http://www.dav.org/cst/index.html

UNICEF: http://www.supportunicef.org/site/pp.asp…

ACCION: http://www.accion.org/about_our_mission.…

America's Second Harvest Network".
http://www.secondharvest.org/who_we_help…


Are they Christian? You show off your ignorance far too readily for my liking Drich.

The fact of the matter is what little good is done for the poor, the weak and the needy is by humans. Not by your "God". It matters very little what religion a charity proclaims itself to be, God has not directly intervened. It has been through the hardship of those who care enough to allow their fellow man a chance at life.
Such compassion seems devoid from the almighty who could save the countless children which humanity doesn't reach in time... but deems it unworthy of his attention.
Either he is malevolent or he does not exist and I don't think you can begin to prove otherwise.
And just so you know I do infact do my part so yeah... backfire much?

"Most Christian in orgin I might add."

You seem to be having trouble with one of the words I used in my last post.
(see defination 2)
most
adj \ˈmōst\
Definition of MOST
1: greatest in quantity, extent, or degree <the most ability>
2: the majority of <most people>
See most defined for English-language learners »
See most defined for kids »
Examples of MOST
Choosing a color took the most time.
That family owned the most land.
Unfortunately the negative aspects of our schools get the most attention.

Well thank you Drich, while I already knew the definition of "Most " despite it being a very complex concept only a creationist could explain with the breathtaking eloquence with which you copied and pasted it I'm very grateful you went to the trouble.
Allow me to return the favor by providing you with definitions of words that would appear to of elluded you.

"proof/pro͞of/
Noun:
Evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement."

As in, you have none to back up the statement that "Most " charities in the world are of your particular brand of paradoxical statements... sorry, I mean religion.

"el·o·quence/ˈeləkwəns/
Noun:
Fluent or persuasive speaking or writing.
The art or manner of such speech or writing."

As in what every statement you produce lacks.

"ed·u·ca·tion/ˌejəˈkāSHən/
Noun:
The process of receiving or giving systematic instruction, esp. at a school or university: "a new system of public education"."

What you evidently did not receive.

"knowl·edge/ˈnälij/
Noun:
Information and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.
What is known in a particular field or in total; facts and information."

What you did not acquire the thirst for.

"mo·ron/ˈmôrˌän/
Noun:
A stupid person.
Synonyms:
imbecile - fool - cretin"

What you are as a result.

You're welcome by the way... oh and... don't try to patronize me again.
I'm far, far better at it. :-)

(August 12, 2012 at 12:40 am)Thor Wrote: In most cases kids are starving because of corrupt governments who use food as a weapon. We couldn't feed the kids no matter how much we want to or try. Your deity, on the other hand, being omnipotent and all powerful, could feed these starving kids without so much as lifting a finger. So don't go trying to push off starving kids on us. If I was all powerful and omnipotent I would feed every one of them. But I'm sure you'll have some pathetic excuse to let your "loving" deity off the hook.

Suppose God feeds every hungry person in the world. What are we (you and me) likely to do? Well, stop working of course! If God will intervene and supply my every need, why must I do anything? Let Him care for us hand and foot. In the meantime, we are turning into selfish monsters who won't do anything for others because we aren't doing anything for ourselves. God wants to inspire love in us, and that is one good product of suffering. Now if you want to allow a clause like "God will only feed those who cannot help their situation", then consider who could help them--other people. Or to put it another way, who could step in and prevent people from getting food. At some point you infringe upon free will. If I want to lock someone in a dungeon, who is God to magically place bread in that dungeon? How dare he interfere with my life! And presto--half the world still hates God.

Finally I ask, to what extent should God get involved? What should he consider "bad" or worthy of his attention? Is it the all-knowing American's definition? An African tribe's that willingly practices female circumcision and violent initiations? What universal standard do you have in mind? I should hope one wiser than all of us (since we cannot all be right). And since God is all knowing, He should be the one to define this standard. And He has. Do you question His judgment? Upon what self-defined principle?

(August 13, 2012 at 1:06 am)Undeceived Wrote:

(August 12, 2012 at 12:40 am)Thor Wrote: In most cases kids are starving because of corrupt governments who use food as a weapon. We couldn't feed the kids no matter how much we want to or try. Your deity, on the other hand, being omnipotent and all powerful, could feed these starving kids without so much as lifting a finger. So don't go trying to push off starving kids on us. If I was all powerful and omnipotent I would feed every one of them. But I'm sure you'll have some pathetic excuse to let your "loving" deity off the hook.

Suppose God feeds every hungry person in the world. What are we (you and me) likely to do? Well, stop working of course! If God will intervene and supply my every need, why must I do anything? Let Him care for us hand and foot. In the meantime, we are turning into selfish monsters who won't do anything for others because we aren't doing anything for ourselves. God wants to inspire love in us, and that is one good product of suffering. Now if you want to allow a clause like "God will only feed those who cannot help their situation", then consider who could help them--other people. Or to put it another way, who could step in and prevent people from getting food. At some point you infringe upon free will. If I want to lock someone in a dungeon, who is God to magically place bread in that dungeon? How dare he interfere with my life! And presto--half the world still hates God.

What the fuck are you on about? If hunger and other necessities were cured and catered for we'd focus on expanding our knowledge and making life better for everybody.
There would be far more to do. We'd be free to innovate and push our limits, we might even perfect space travel in time if concerns like that disappeared.
Are you seriously telling me that didn't occur to you? You'd just stop working? Are your aspirations for mankind that low?
Fucking hell, no wonder you're religious.

(August 13, 2012 at 1:09 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: If hunger and other necessities were cured and catered for we'd focus on expanding our knowledge and making life better for everybody.

What, in your mind, is a necessity? Name them all.