CliveStaples Wrote:That's why Ryantology is lecturing about how bad theism is, instead of how bad the shooter's ideology is.

Are you referring to his perosonal ideology? If not, exactly what part of any Progressive or LGBT ideology condones violence? Is there a radio firebrand out there somewhere telling his people to take up arms & attack the religious "oppressors"? Someone with an actual audience?

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(August 16, 2012 at 8:54 am)CliveStaples Wrote: Your second bit is completely your own invention. I have no idea where you're getting this--some liberal firebrand whipping up an armed rebellion? Huh?

Like my edit said, I parsed that sentence incorrectly, but thankfully you went right back to trying to tie a progressive or LGBT ideology with violence, with no correlating evidence, which I questioned you on in the above paragraph..

"...uh, isn't the issue precisely "the actions of the loonies"? Isn't that the issue we're talking about here??"


Your coyness notwithstanding, I think you're better than this, or at least, you had better be if you want to make a real point in this thread.

(August 16, 2012 at 8:57 am)Jaysyn Wrote: Are you referring to his perosonal ideology? If not, exactly what part of any Progressive or LGBT ideology condones violence? Is there a radio firebrand out there somewhere telling his people to take up arms & attack the religious "oppressors"? Someone with an actual audience?

I didn't say that mainstream Progressive or LGBT ideology condones violence. But obviously some extremist ones do--just as extremist Christian ideologies condone the killing of doctors who perform abortions, while mainstream Christian ideologies do not.

I don't know if there is a radio firebrand out there seriously telling people to take up arms and attack religious "oppressors". I doubt it, and if there is one, he probably doesn't have a very large audience.

(August 16, 2012 at 8:54 am)CliveStaples Wrote: Like my edit said, I parsed that sentence incorrectly, but thankfully you went right back to trying to tie a progressive or LGBT ideology with violence, with no correlating evidence, which I questioned you on in the above paragraph..

The guy said that he shot the place up because of what FRC stands for. That indicates that part of his motivation were his LBGT ideology. Now, clearly this alone wasn't sufficient motivation, or we'd see far more LBGT ideologues carrying out similar attacks. But his LBGT together with some batshit crazy extremism results in shooting up FRC.

Just like Christianity together with some batshit crazy extremism results in shooting doctors who perform abortions.

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(August 16, 2012 at 9:04 am)Epimethean Wrote: Your coyness notwithstanding, I think you're better than this, or at least, you had better be if you want to make a real point in this thread.

The issue I'm talking about is "Gunman attacks conservative Christian group". What issue are you talking about?

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(August 16, 2012 at 8:52 am)Jaysyn Wrote: Now why do you think that our latest politically motivated shooter has stooped to the level of injuring another human being?

Because he's a fucking asshole extremist. If he were conservative, he'd have shot up a different place.

Clive, do you want to talk about the gunman, his sanity, or his actions, and, based on which of those should we discuss ideology?

(August 16, 2012 at 9:16 am)Epimethean Wrote: his sanity

My quick thoughts on this? He's totally sane & knew what he was doing was wrong. I also think that some small part of him didn't want to go thru with it. This is part of the reason why Mr. security guard is still alive. If you are crazy or really determined, you don't try to rationalize with your victim on why he is about to die, that shit only happens in the movies, you kill as many as you can before the cops arrive.

Clive, I don't hate conservative Christians, nor do I feel less bad for someone who has been attacked because of what they believe. You don't know enough about me to make those assertions. I'm related to conservative Christians, as are many atheists. I don't love them any less. Quit acting like atheists are the elitist cocks that Christians like you tend to be.

Tiberius, it being legal in some places does not make it common.

(August 16, 2012 at 9:40 am)Jaysyn Wrote:

(August 16, 2012 at 9:16 am)Epimethean Wrote: his sanity

My quick thoughts on this? He's totally sane & knew what he was doing was wrong. I also think that some small part of him didn't want to go thru with it. This is part of the reason why Mr. security guard is still alive. If you are crazy or really determined, you don't try to rationalize with your victim on why he is about to die, that shit only happens in the movies, you kill as many as you can before the cops arrive.

I agree that this guy was sane and that he knew what he was doing. But he intended to kill people had the security guard not wrestled him and disarmed him. It was only after the guard took the guy's gun that the shooter said, "Don't shoot me. It's not about you. It's about what this place stands for." He intended to kill people.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/16/all...-thursday/

(August 16, 2012 at 12:01 pm)A Theist Wrote: I agree that this guy was sane and that he knew what he was doing. But he intended to kill people had the security guard not wrestled him and disarmed him. It was only after the guard took the guy's gun that the shooter said, "Don't shoot me. It's not about you. It's about what this place stands for." He intended to kill people.

Exactly what part of "some small part of him" did you not understand?

A crazy person wouldn't have stopped to tell a security guard "I don't like your politics" before pulling a gun (all the way in a freaking backpack, instead of a concealed holster or waistband) on them. They would have shot them (in the head) & then went inside.

(August 16, 2012 at 11:29 am)Shell B Wrote: Clive, I don't hate conservative Christians, nor do I feel less bad for someone who has been attacked because of what they believe. You don't know enough about me to make those assertions. I'm related to conservative Christians, as are many atheists. I don't love them any less. Quit acting like atheists are the elitist cocks that Christians like you tend to be.

...you don't read much on this forum, do you?

...you don't read what you write on this forum, do you?

I don't have to act like atheists are elitist cocks. You guys do a bang-up job of that all on your own.

(August 16, 2012 at 11:29 am)Shell B Wrote: Tiberius, it being legal in some places does not make it common.

Lion IRC didn't say it was common though. He said:

"Killing abortion doctors is wrong for the exact same reason killing these people is wrong..."

followed by the image of a fetus at 17 weeks. The fact that some 17 week old fetuses do get aborted means his opinion is perfectly valid, as was his post.