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Free will and the Christian God
August 26, 2012 at 8:40 am
Free will, a beloved superstition, is an important concept to Christians because it justifies God condemning them to Hell.
You cannot have free will or God cannot be omniscient.
You have to choose between an apple an an orange. So if this all-knowing God knows you are going to pick the apple but you choose the orange you have just negated Gods omniscience. If you are unable to pick the orange then you have negated free will.
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RE: Free will and the Christian God
August 26, 2012 at 12:53 pm
(August 26, 2012 at 8:40 am)GodlessGirl Wrote: Free will, a beloved superstition, is an important concept to Christians because it justifies God condemning them to Hell.
You cannot have free will or God cannot be omniscient.
You have to choose between an apple an an orange. So if this all-knowing God knows you are going to pick the apple but you choose the orange you have just negated Gods omniscience. If you are unable to pick the orange then you have negated free will.
Hey, girl. Good to see a female participating, here! Are you thinking that God's omniscience is total, and so God's knowing the outcome of our choices predetermines that we have no freedom to choose otherwise?
"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (no matter how improbable) must be the truth."
--Spock
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RE: Free will and the Christian God
August 26, 2012 at 1:26 pm
(August 26, 2012 at 12:53 pm)spockrates Wrote: Are you thinking that God's omniscience is total, and so God's knowing the outcome of our choices predetermines that we have no freedom to choose otherwise?
On a side note, I've always wondered why anyone insists on omni-anything from their god(s). From our point of view, how could we possibly know if such knew everything or just a helluva lot more than us .. or was omnipotent or just a helluva lot more powerful than us. Being the most good is perhaps the hardest to make sense of since context makes so much difference morally.
So long as theists insist on omni-everything, objections such as Godless Girl's will forever arise.
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RE: Free will and the Christian God
August 26, 2012 at 1:30 pm
(August 26, 2012 at 12:53 pm)spockrates Wrote: Good to see a female participating, here
I know right! Like it doesn't fucking happen every day!
Oh wait. 
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RE: Free will and the Christian God
August 26, 2012 at 1:33 pm
(This post was last modified: August 26, 2012 at 1:35 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 26, 2012 at 12:53 pm)spockrates Wrote: Hey, girl. Good to see a female participating, here! Are you thinking that God's omniscience is total, and so God's knowing the outcome of our choices predetermines that we have no freedom to choose otherwise?
Omniscience is total, by definition, or it is not omniscience... 
And yes, Spock, it does. You may need to work on this, because you seem to be incapable of maintaining the integrity of the words "choice" or "omniscience" when you string them together.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Free will and the Christian God
August 26, 2012 at 1:49 pm
(August 26, 2012 at 12:53 pm)spockrates Wrote: Hey, girl. Good to see a female participating, here!
Wait, what?! 
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura
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RE: Free will and the Christian God
August 26, 2012 at 1:57 pm
(August 26, 2012 at 8:40 am)GodlessGirl Wrote: Free will, a beloved superstition, is an important concept to Christians because it justifies God condemning them to Hell.
Free-will doesn't justify anyone getting eternally tortured. If an ultimately great being existed, he would be forbearing, forgiving, merciful, compassionate, and loving.
At the very least, people shouldn't get tortured for not believing in a religion or God, this even with the view, that "cosmic justice" must be implemented.
Free-will doesn't justifying hating people for their mistakes and errors. It doesn't justify torturing them for a wrong decision and their faults.
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RE: Free will and the Christian God
August 26, 2012 at 5:51 pm
Perhaps this particular tyrant doesn't really give a shit about justification? Douches gotta douche.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Free will and the Christian God
August 27, 2012 at 12:00 pm
(August 26, 2012 at 5:51 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Perhaps this particular tyrant doesn't really give a shit about justification? Douches gotta douche.
I think if a God did exist he wouldn't be concerned with human affairs.
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RE: Free will and the Christian God
August 27, 2012 at 12:10 pm
(August 27, 2012 at 12:00 pm)GodlessGirl Wrote: I think if a God did exist he wouldn't be concerned with human affairs.
Well, if a god does exist, that certainly seems to be the case!
Science flies us to the moon and stars. Religion flies us into buildings.
God allowed 200,000 people to die in an earthquake. So what makes you think he cares about YOUR problems?
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