(August 28, 2012 at 6:50 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(August 28, 2012 at 5:11 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: I’d know supernatural events occur if a young scantily clad Barbara Eden suddenly appeared from nowhere in front of me, crossed her arms and started blinking convertibles, large piles of gold, more scantily clad young women, jets, mega yachts, private islands, cold fusion reactors, intergalactic starships and time machines into existence.

ETA: Oh, and a fountain of youth....

I would fuck her to prove she is natural.

If you fucked her on the intergalactic starship you could be the first Homo sapiens member of the light year high club.

(August 28, 2012 at 11:48 pm)popeyespappy Wrote:

(August 28, 2012 at 6:50 pm)Chuck Wrote: I would fuck her to prove she is natural.

If you fucked her on the intergalactic starship you could be the first Homo sapiens member of the light year high club.

You get to be in the light year high club for fucking a female Klingon. For fucking a blond who can blink more blonds into existence I deserve to be in the Megaparsec high club.

The hallmark of the natural is repeatability. Natural refers to natural law, to regularities in the world that can be demonstrated. Even if gravity were a chance movement of matter that always coincidentally lined up with our mathematical equations, it would still be deemed a natural law. Natural law isn't about a metaphysical underlying cause or essence, it's about predictability and conformance to mathematical model. As such, the supernatural is rightly excluded from science, not by some metaphysical bar excluding it, but because science studies natural law, which implies repeatability; supernatural events, their causes, aren't repeatable, aren't regular enough to be modeled. If one sort of "supernatural" events do become repeatable, predictable and capable of being model, it ceases to be supernatural and becomes just one more example of nature and natural law.

Oh, and regarding the "unnatural" terminology, I come down against its use. There is nothing in existence, aside from the supernatural, that is not natural. The works of termites, beavers, and men are just an example of a very long and complex chain of natural processes. But nowhere along that chain did the processes stop being natural and start being something else. This question comes up also in the subject of intelligent design. People like William Dembski have argued that "designed things" have certain properties that undesigned things do not. In the language of Paley, things just "look designed." The question there is analogous. What would it mean for something to "look designed" - if there can even be such? The same question applies to termites, beavers and humans - what part of their activity is "unnatural" ? Is defecating a natural act and watchmaking an unnatural one because they employ different organs in producing the output? Surely if this natural versus unnatural split is to have any validity, you'll need a divining rod which jerks appropriately at the unnatural, but not at the natural. What is that divining rod, what is the test?

On a similar note: Would anyone know if there was a second coming of Jesus? or would we just throw him in a padded cell?
There have been several wackos claiming to be the second coming. The one that sticks out for me was a guy who tried to jump the fence at the White House last spring (I think, maybe it was last fall...). Yeah, he's currently in St. Elizabeth's undergoing psychiatric treatment. I posed this question on Facebook, and was met with a bunch of religious wing-nuts who said that the second coming would be obvious due to biblical prophecies coming true. Sure...

(August 29, 2012 at 11:43 am)festive1 Wrote: On a similar note: Would anyone know if there was a second coming of Jesus? or would we just throw him in a padded cell?
There have been several wackos claiming to be the second coming. The one that sticks out for me was a guy who tried to jump the fence at the White House last spring (I think, maybe it was last fall...). Yeah, he's currently in St. Elizabeth's undergoing psychiatric treatment. I posed this question on Facebook, and was met with a bunch of religious wing-nuts who said that the second coming would be obvious due to biblical prophecies coming true. Sure...

Well, the second coming is suppose to involve Jesus flying from the sky and cosmic trumpets blaring. But the prediction failed and now we're almost 2000 years past the time that was suppose to happen