How about we start by showing that Mark wrote actual history? Until then, why bother discussing something that never happened?

(September 5, 2012 at 9:07 pm)Minimalist Wrote: So, it's just a plot device.

Indeed, as is the character of Joseph of Arimathea, [erstwhile owner of said tomb] almost certainly

See that teaearlgreyhot ?

The other posters are doing a great job showing that if you dont actually want to contest the empty tomb evidence,
just ignore it as never having taken place. Simple.

Lazy....but simple.

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(September 5, 2012 at 10:36 pm)padraic Wrote:

(September 5, 2012 at 9:07 pm)Minimalist Wrote: So, it's just a plot device.

Indeed, as is the character of Joseph of Arimathea, [erstwhile owner of said tomb] almost certainly

Why stop there? Just call the entire bible a ''plot device.''

You wouldnt be the first atheist to say...all lies/all made up

That would save you guys a TON of work then you could get back to your non-stamp collecting.

The empty tomb is not "evidence," son. It is an assertion. Just as Saddam's WMDs were an assertion.

Both apparently bullshit from the word "go", as well.

Quote:Lazy....but simple.

The reason any claim made about Jesus,his life and resurrection are not believed by skeptics such as myself is that there is no credible evidence for any of it.


If there is any mental laziness or intellectual dishonesty,it comes from apologists who insist on asserting Jewish and Christian mythology are history.


I have no right NOT to offended.However, I do have the right to BE offended,and to say so.To accuse me of being mentally lazy because I do not accept your beliefs is offensive. Fuck you.

Hey, where exactly is Aramathea?

Lion IRC Wrote:See that teaearlgreyhot ?

The other posters are doing a great job showing that if you dont actually want to contest the empty tomb evidence,
just ignore it as never having taken place. Simple.

Lazy....but simple.

EVIDENCE OF NON-GENUINE HISTORY

Well, would you look at that! EVIDENCE. These are the ones that I know of so far. Note: NONE of these are 'prophecies fulfilled' but trivial events and/or sayings by 'Jesus'.

It takes more faith to believe this is all genuine history than believing Mark never intended to write genuine history.

Your turn.

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Let me give you a lead on what you need to explain to refute my post:

Why is Peter's witness account (i.e. the Gospel of Mark) indifferentiable from the OT and epistles? Do you honestly call that a 'witness account'?

(September 5, 2012 at 11:16 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Hey, where exactly is Aramathea?

As far as I know,there is no ancient record of such a place.


However,Christian apologists have come up with some creative explanations,as is their wont when faced with lack of proof.

Rhetorical question, Pad.

I apologise if this has come up before, I'm not always able to keep up with all this stuff, however it seems to fit in ideally at this point.

Is anyone familiar with the old Columbo episodes? Rarely a murder case goes by without the murderer going out of their way, do something perhaps out of their ordinary routine to establish an alibi; from simply asking a potential witness the time to setting up some elaborate scheme to ensure that potential witnesses will remember the killer's movements at a specific time. "Oh, it couldn't have been Mr Shatner, Lieutenant, I remember he showed me the new watch he'd just bought. I remember distinctly the time was precisely three-thirty, he was most insistent to show me how accurate the Swiss movement was..." And so forth.

How do we know the tomb was empty? Because a vignette scene shows just how empty the tomb was; which wouldn't be so bad in itself, rather sloppy storytelling but forgivable if the stories weren't so horribly inconsistent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGUtjcOiITU?rel=0

Relevant quote for anyone who, for whatever reasons, cannot or will not watch the video:

"In truth, the visit of the women to the tomb is a contrived plot element. The author need the women to go to the tomb, not really to anoint the body - that's simply a pretext - but to witness that the stone has been moved away and that the tomb itself was empty."

Or to put it another way: "The tomb had to have been empty, Lieutenant. The women who rolled back the rock were most insistent about how empty it was."