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RE: "How do you explain the empty tomb?"
September 6, 2012 at 12:21 am
(This post was last modified: September 6, 2012 at 12:42 am by Tea Earl Grey Hot.)
(September 5, 2012 at 10:53 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: See that teaearlgreyhot ?
The other posters are doing a great job showing that if you dont actually want to contest the empty tomb evidence,
just ignore it as never having taken place. Simple.
Lazy....but simple.
The empty tomb isn't evidence. Show me said empty tomb. Prove that it housed the dead body of Jesus. Prove that Jesus was actually dead in it (it's not even clear that Jesus really died in the synoptic gospels).
We don't assert it's made up. It fits too nicely to other greco-roman narratives that involve that also involve empty tombs:
Quote:It is important that Joseph is rich and buries Jesus in his own, presumably opulent, tomb. This provides the narrative motivation for tomb robbers to move in and seek the rich funerary tokens they assume have been buried with Joseph, who they assume must be laid out inside. (Who's buried in Grant's tomb?) Instead, they discover someone coming out of a deathlike torpor-and flee! This is exactly what happens in various Hellenistic romance novels of the period, such as Chariton's Chaireas and Callirhoe, with the one exception that the robbers do not want witnesses and so kidnap the newly revived person. Mourners visiting the tomb are stunned to find it empty, in the novels as in the Gospels. Jesus has departed.
Robert M. Price. The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man: How Reliable Is the Gospel Tradition? (p. 327). Kindle Edition.
You can read the story for yourself here: http://books.google.com/books?id=pAxIW-H...mb&f=false
My ignore list
"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: "How do you explain the empty tomb?"
September 6, 2012 at 1:20 am
(September 5, 2012 at 11:16 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Hey, where exactly is Aramathea?
In the mind of whichever gospel-writing shithead thought him up.
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RE: "How do you explain the empty tomb?"
September 6, 2012 at 1:41 am
(This post was last modified: September 6, 2012 at 1:43 am by Lion IRC.)
(September 6, 2012 at 12:21 am)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: (September 5, 2012 at 10:53 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: See that teaearlgreyhot ?
The other posters are doing a great job showing that if you dont actually want to contest the empty tomb evidence,
just ignore it as never having taken place. Simple.
Lazy....but simple.
The empty tomb isn't evidence. Show me said empty tomb. Prove that it housed the dead body of Jesus. Prove that Jesus was actually dead in it (it's not even clear that Jesus really died in the synoptic gospels).
LOL
No, see now youre engaging in discussion about the specific details of the matter.
Thats the antithesis of your own Op which suggests theres NOTHING to discuss.
Do you think it reasonable that a prominent religious Messiah figure would be buried in a tomb or not?
Do you think that the Roman/Jewish authorities would have ALSO wanted to oversee burial in a secure tomb as a means of publically demonstrating that a person was in fact dead and buried - THE END rather than letting the body disappear immediately after Crucifixion?
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RE: "How do you explain the empty tomb?"
September 6, 2012 at 1:52 am
Quote:Do you think it reasonable that a prominent religious Messiah figure would be buried in a tomb or not?
There is no credible evidence that Jesus was either.
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RE: "How do you explain the empty tomb?"
September 6, 2012 at 1:56 am
(This post was last modified: September 6, 2012 at 2:00 am by Lion IRC.)
(September 5, 2012 at 11:08 pm)padraic Wrote: Quote:Lazy....but simple.
The reason any claim made about Jesus,his life and resurrection are not believed by skeptics such as myself is that there is no credible evidence for any of it.
You dont believe it because you dont find it believable. Right! Got it. 
(September 5, 2012 at 11:08 pm)padraic Wrote: ...If there is any mental laziness or intellectual dishonesty,it comes from apologists who insist on asserting Jewish and Christian mythology are history. If you look more closely, you will see that the assertion I make is that history is history not that mythology is history. Of course we can argue about it but remember that you are actually doing what you accuse me of - viz; You are insisting that history is actually mythology. (Pot/kettle...Never mind. Take your time. You'll see the hypocrisy of your own position eventually.)
(September 5, 2012 at 11:08 pm)padraic Wrote: ...I have no right NOT to offended. However, I do have the right to BE offended, and to say so... Double negatives confuse me. Sorry. Of course you have the right to not be not offended by something you dont think isnt offensive.
Think what you like.
(September 5, 2012 at 11:08 pm)padraic Wrote: ...To accuse me of being mentally lazy because I do not accept your beliefs is offensive. Fuck you.
Well at least you made the effort to post something at me.
Wanna talk about the tomb now?
(September 6, 2012 at 1:52 am)padraic Wrote: Quote:Do you think it reasonable that a prominent religious Messiah figure would be buried in a tomb or not?
There is no credible evidence that Jesus was either.
Yeah, yeah, I get it ALREADY!
Save your time posting the exact same empty type of reply reply reply reply reply reply reply reply...................................
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RE: "How do you explain the empty tomb?"
September 6, 2012 at 2:08 am
(This post was last modified: September 6, 2012 at 2:12 am by Tea Earl Grey Hot.)
(September 6, 2012 at 1:41 am)Lion IRC Wrote: (September 6, 2012 at 12:21 am)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: The empty tomb isn't evidence. Show me said empty tomb. Prove that it housed the dead body of Jesus. Prove that Jesus was actually dead in it (it's not even clear that Jesus really died in the synoptic gospels).
LOL
No, see now youre engaging in discussion about the specific details of the matter.
Thats the antithesis of your own Op which suggests theres NOTHING to discuss.
Do you think it reasonable that a prominent religious Messiah figure would be buried in a tomb or not?
Do you think that the Roman/Jewish authorities would have ALSO wanted to oversee burial in a secure tomb as a means of publically demonstrating that a person was in fact dead and buried - THE END rather than letting the body disappear immediately after Crucifixion?
I highly doubt Jesus was ever crucified and buried. I think that's all likely made up being a combination of dozens of ancient stories.
But even supposing Jesus was buried in tomb and then his tomb was later found empty, I don't need to resort miracle. Given all the poor, contradictory, and incomplete evidence we have surrounding the resurrection just about any naturalistic explanation is better no matter how unlikely compared to a supernatural explanation. Large groups of people throughout history have believed crazy irrational things. The people who testified against, tried and executed women in Salem really thought they were witches. Many people believed Roswell involved real UFOs and aliens. Many people think Elvis is still alive despite still being in his tomb. A number of people believe Michael Jackson is still alive. Thousands of people in India believe they saw a stone idol cry milk. Many cults continued to persist even after their founder died and/or their predictions became false. In some cases they grew stronger after they "failed." Mankind has always been prone to believing crazy things. I have no more reason to seriously consider whether Jesus was raised than I do for believing aliens crashed in 1947, or Elvis faked his death, or that a man can bend spoons with his mind.
My ignore list
"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: "How do you explain the empty tomb?"
September 6, 2012 at 2:23 am
(This post was last modified: September 6, 2012 at 2:26 am by Oldandeasilyconfused.)
Quote:Wanna talk about the tomb now?
No.
Quote:If you look more closely, you will see that the assertion I make is that history is history not that mythology is history.
"History is history" is a tautology. Mythology sometimes has some historical base. I make no claims about Jesus. I assert only I do not believe the claims made of him due to lack of credible evidence.n.
Once again; there is NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE about the life, teachings and death of Jesus. There is no credible evidence that any of the stories about Jesus are anything other than myth. IE NOT history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSYMEM9IYeQ
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RE: "How do you explain the empty tomb?"
September 6, 2012 at 4:31 am
If empty caves become proof that people rise from the dead, the zombie apocalypse may be on us sooner than we think.
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RE: "How do you explain the empty tomb?"
September 6, 2012 at 4:33 am
There's a big one..Mammoth in fact, not but a few miles from me. Should I start boarding up the gaping maw of this zombie spawner?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "How do you explain the empty tomb?"
September 6, 2012 at 4:49 am
(September 6, 2012 at 4:33 am)Rhythm Wrote: There's a big one..Mammoth in fact, not but a few miles from me. Should I start boarding up the gaping maw of this zombie spawner?
It's there and it's empty, and it's enormous, if that's not proof that something huge rose from the dead, I don't know what is.
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