(December 30, 2012 at 12:55 pm)SavedByChrist94 Wrote: 1, Science say God The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit exists, The Bible is His Word, He Loves us and that "atheism" is fairy tales.

Citation please? Which discipline of Science "say" all this?

(December 30, 2012 at 12:55 pm)SavedByChrist94 Wrote: 2, "atheism" says rape is good.

Atheism says nothing at all. It is a response to theism and nothing else. I'll leave it to others to educate you on what the Abrahamic bible says about rape.

(December 30, 2012 at 6:36 am)Tobie Wrote: Oh how wrong you are. There are several contradictions in the bible (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/j...tions.html) especially in the nature of the Abrahamic God.

Nope, maybe translation errors but no contradiction, that old argument has been long thrown in the trash, http://www.tektonics.org/lp/merrit01.html

(December 30, 2012 at 6:36 am)Tobie Wrote: I haven't seen any examples of historical/scientific foreknowledge, so please provide some (no matter how dubious, I want to see what you think counts as foreknowledge).

http://www.eternal-productions.org/101science.html

(December 30, 2012 at 6:36 am)Tobie Wrote: Also, they were occasionally scientifically accurate,

Thank you.

(December 30, 2012 at 6:36 am)Tobie Wrote: but about stuff that was already known at the time.

Creation ex nihilo, Substance Dualism(Spirit), universe beginning, Earth being round and universe expanding wasn't known as you can't tell unless in space

(December 30, 2012 at 6:36 am)Tobie Wrote: There has been nothing to prove that we are dealing with facts when we talk about the bible, so this bit is null and void.

Nope,

Read The Whole thing

All your possible embellishment theories will be Impossible.

Going through every "naturalistic" myth and will leave The Resurrection as The Only Explanation, not best or most probable but Only Explanation.

proving that Jesus Christ existed and there was an empty tomb factually follows that He rose from the dead.

myth theory -

Different points of views, no contradiction from The Apostles means events happened. miracles are authentic as they are written in witness and have evidence of addition, exaggeration, or lies.

Josephus proves Jesus Christ was crucified, no matter what you say this man was a Jew, had no biased or presupposition.

Nazareth Inscription proves empty tomb.

Women found the tomb empty, this irrefutable, criteria of embarrassment

Matthew 28:11-18 proves without a doubt there was an empty tomb, Matthew refutes the Jews, no matter what you say or what you think he REFUTES what the Jews were saying, which proves, the Jews were claiming they stole the tomb. a common presupposition and excuse.

My fellow Christians told the truth of The Resurrection and the Jews spread the stolen tomb myth, either way EMPTY TOMB, of who? Jesus Christ, why was there a tomb? He was crucified, why? because the Jews thought He committed blasphemy why was there an empty tomb? we will get to that next. Apostles died for their beliefs and appearances are genuine(will get to it next)

"myth theory" is long gone and dead. if you EVER claim myth then you are a presuppositional delusional hypocritical, the words could go on and on.

myth "theory" is now an impossible myth.


conspiracy theory - 1, No one could have stolen the tomb as it was blocked by roman guards.

2, Apostles had nothing to gain, criteria of embarrassment, they were shamed and were against all evil, sin.

3, They died for their beliefs, 11 of the 12 Apostles died for their beliefs, no one dies for a known lie, they really believed in The Resurrection added that with the facts of the appearances.

4, Appearances to Women, proves Apostles were telling the truth

5, James, the brother of Jesus Christ in The Gospels is a skeptic, outside of it he's a believer(Letters, Church, and Josephus) Jesus had to have appeared to him.

6, Paul, a prosecutor of Christians becomes a Christian himself and becomes a leading preacher of Christianity going through all kinds of suffering and ultimately death for his beliefs.

7, Apostles believed in The Resurrection despite every predispostion to the contrary, no one believed The Messiah was going to die, be God, or much less Resurrect from the dead. no one believed in The Resurrection until the end of world, the general Resurrection.

Apostles believed The Resurrection happened, myth and conspiracy theories are now myths, if you want to argue you can only use your last 3 "naturalistic" myths when arguing with me because the myth and conspiracy theories are dead myths now, using them or believing them exposes you as a hypocrite as those are now Impossible Explanations.


Now we have a few facts,

Jesus Christ was crucified
There was an Empty Tomb
Jesus Christ appeared alive after His death to several people
Apostles really believed in The Resurrection


last 3 which are easily refutatable.

"twin brother/lookalike" theory - Apostles knew Jesus, saw Him perform more miracles, Empty Tomb and no one could have stolen the tomb, had same wounds, no known twin brother as James, Jesus half brother, would take that into consideration. and theory is a stretch.

"twin brother/lookalike" theory is a myth

swoon theory - Apostles saw Jesus Christ die, He was anointed, stabbed in chest pouring blood and water confirming death, romans made sure you die when crucified, even if survived would have been impossible to escape tomb, would've died later, would not convince apostles, and Jesus Christ Ascended.

swoon theory is now a myth

last theory that if I disprove I prove The Resurrection happened.

hallucination theory - Apostles were in their right minds, died for their beliefs, hallucinations are fast and quick, Thomas for example put his hand in Jesus side, you don't have multiple hallucinations about the same thing, and finally multiple people do not hallucinate about the same thing.

EVERY Single "naturalistic" "theory" has been made a myth of.

There is one Irrefutable Explanation, not the best but The Only Explanation is that Jesus Christ died on the cross and Resurrected from the dead, therefore proving everything in The Bible as a fact.

Jesus Christ Resurrected from the dead.

add that with The Shroud which has no evidence of forgery, not a painting, cannot be reproduced with any type of technology, and caused by a burst of light from the dead body causing an image like a photography.

With The facts of The Bible's inerrancy and no contradiction, The Sense it makes, reliable Testimony/Accounts, Scientific Accuracy and foreknowledge, Historical Accuracy and foreknowledge, God's existence and failure of other religions making Christianity the only factual possibility, Physical evidence in The Shroud and Only Explanation being The Resurrection, it is indeniable, God Exists, Jesus Christ is Lord, Our Savior who died for our sins on the cross, Jesus Christ is the 2nd person of God, and that God is The Trinity of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

(December 30, 2012 at 6:36 am)Tobie Wrote: Wishful thinking. There has been no uncaused cause proven,

Borde Guide Valkieken Theorem and big bang prove universe began to exist, The Cause is The First Uncaused Cause.

Next time refute the whole thing, don't pick and choose.

(December 30, 2012 at 6:36 am)Tobie Wrote: So for some reason, you believe that it's horribly illogical for the universe not to have a cause, but if God doesn't, it's perfectly fine? I see glaringly obvious logical no-nos here.

Whatever exists in time, in change, in sucession begins to exist, The First Uncaused Cause/God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit) can exist without time.

(December 30, 2012 at 6:36 am)Tobie Wrote: As for atheism needing proof; the most common form of atheism (the position of most atheists on these forums) is agnostic atheism, which means they do not believe in the existence of God, but do not claim any knowledge about the existence of God. This position makes no claims, so requires no proof. Again, you need to look into this thing called logic.

a "lack of belief" needs jusification/proof, I can't lack belief that Person A is the killer without evidence why, especially when we have video footage of Person A committing the murder.

SavedByChrist Wrote:2, "atheism" says rape is good.

Were you trying to be inflammatory with this, or are you really this misinformed?

Also, remind me again which commandment condemns rape?

(December 30, 2012 at 1:17 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

SavedByChrist Wrote:2, "atheism" says rape is good.

Were you trying to be inflammatory with this, or are you really this misinformed?

Also, remind me again which commandment condemns rape?

There are many instances in the bible that condone rape, slavery, incest, murder, genocide and all manner of horrible things.

The only thing it seems consistent on is don't screw someone of your own sex.

(December 30, 2012 at 1:14 pm)SavedByChrist94 Wrote: a "lack of belief" needs jusification/proof, I can't lack belief that Person A is the killer without evidence why, especially when we have video footage of Person A committing the murder.

Nope; sorry. In this scenario of yours, you are presented with the evidence that your person A is guilty, not evidence to justify a lack of belief in his guilt. The crime is proven and the perpetrator shown to be the murderer. In other words, you began with the lack of belief and then went on to consider the presented evidence. You just shot yourself in the foot I'm afraid.

Should have been the head.

(December 30, 2012 at 1:09 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Citation please? Which discipline of Science "say" all this?

First Uncaused Cause
Fine Tuning
Morality(Apart of nature, therefore scientific)
Substance Dualism
Intelligent Design
"naturalism" being imposssible
"macro-evolution" being impossible.

(December 30, 2012 at 1:09 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Atheism says nothing at all. It is a response to theism and nothing else. I'll leave it to others to educate you on what the Abrahamic bible says about rape.

Bible condemns rape, Deuteromony 22:25-27

25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.


while under "atheism" there would be no right or wrong, what reason would rape be wrong under "naturalism"/"atheism"?

None.

Added with the fact that "naturalism"'s life support is "macro-evolution" and that rape would help advance the species so under "macro-evolution" and "naturalism"/"natural selection" not only would it not be wrong, not only would it be ok, but it would be good.

Sorry but keep the sinful man(who were sick in the head when they created "atheism"/"naturalism", most likely due to rebellion) made fairy tale myths of "macro-evolution", "naturalism" and "atheism" to yourself, I don't want any of that sick twisted immoral doctrine around me.

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(December 30, 2012 at 1:17 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

SavedByChrist Wrote:2, "atheism" says rape is good.

Were you trying to be inflammatory with this, or are you really this misinformed?

Another "atheist" who thinks he knows everything about The Bible because he went on "evil" Bible.com(run a by a pervert who thinks keeps virgins to yourself means something sex, sees the word virgin and thinks sex or rape, probably gets none) or infidels who have been long refuted.

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(December 30, 2012 at 1:24 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(December 30, 2012 at 1:17 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Were you trying to be inflammatory with this, or are you really this misinformed?

Also, remind me again which commandment condemns rape?

Deuteromony 22:25-27

25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

(December 30, 2012 at 1:24 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: There are many instances in the bible that condone rape, slavery, incest, murder, genocide and all manner of horrible things.

Nope, none, list some so I could refute you.

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(December 30, 2012 at 1:24 pm)Stimbo Wrote: [quote='SavedByChrist94' pid='379287' dateline='1356887687']
a "lack of belief" needs jusification/proof, I can't lack belief that Person A is the killer without evidence why, especially when we have video footage of Person A committing the murder.

Nope; sorry. In this scenario of yours, you are presented with the evidence that your person A is guilty, not evidence to justify a lack of belief in his guilt. The crime is proven and the perpetrator shown to be the murderer. In other words, you began with the lack of belief and then went on to consider the presented evidence. You just shot yourself in the foot I'm afraid.

Nope, you cannot believe nor Lack belief that the person is a killer, it's what you call neutral, which is not "atheism" but "agnostics", however that is false as something happened, so it would be either Theism(Christian) or "atheism", "atheism"(denial of God's existence or lack of belief in His existence) has no evidence whatsoever and has Substantial evidence against from Theism, that it's an Irrefutable Fact, Theism, Christian Theism that is, is The Facts of life

Ah yes, the good ol' "if it benefits evolution, and you believe in evolution, you therefore think it is good" argument. Unfortunately for you, that is not how it works.

(December 30, 2012 at 3:32 pm)SavedByChrist94 Wrote: Bible condemns rape, Deuteromony 22:25-27

25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

Why stop at verse 27? That's right, because verses 28 and 29 indicate that the punishment for raping a virgin is a small payment to the father and hiring a wedding planner.

SavedByChrist94 Wrote:Another "atheist" who thinks he knows everything about The Bible because he went on "evil" Bible.com(run a by a pervert who thinks keeps virgins to yourself means something sex, sees the word virgin and thinks sex or rape, probably gets none) or infidels who have been long refuted.

What the fuck are you even talking about? I admit that I don't kniw much about the bible, but none of what I do know comes from evilbible.com. In fact, I care so little about what is in the bible that I have never even contemplated going to that site.

I have to ask though, what does anything you said have to do with me asking whether you are so misinformed that you think atheism says anything about rape being good?

And then a follow up question, were you dropped on your head as a baby?