As you pointed out and like I was trying to point out myself, the work of these religious scientists is in spite of their religious beliefs. As a quick and dirty example, just off the top of my head, Charles Darwin came to revolutionise the field of biology despite his own religious upbringing and the common view of his day.

As for the Lattice thing, I still don't see a connection between it and evolution of any kind, theistic or otherwise. At most we'd have some basis for a deistic nature to the Universe, starring as you say aliens instead of gods.

Just an abstract comment, which was probably said 100000 times.

Most crazy muslims like me, love nature so much. They believe -the crazy muslims like me- that the proof to their holly book lies right there in the sky.
And also in the cherry blossom, why do people just don't look ?



I guess, most of our debates take part between zombies & beings full of emotions.
Visit japan. It has the best cherry trees ever, and of course : the best blossoms.

Maybe then you'll see an evidence, which might make my topic "a little bit" readable for atheists.

I've a sneaking suspicion the cherry blossoms, if asked the purpose for their being, would have a different perspective.

(January 29, 2013 at 6:40 pm)Zone Wrote: There is one small piece of possible evidence for theistic evolution the human body seems to correspond neatly to the ratio of phi. Though you will see the same thing in other plants and animals to some extent along with much of what you see in the universe in general.



...And from that you get you come to the conclusion that Jesus is Lord.

Do you even lift?

In the extracted portion of your diagram, on the right, b is equal to the full length of the arm, but on the left to only a portion. Yet 'a' in both diagrams is the same. Since b1 <> b2, yet a1 = a2, it is mathematically impossible for b1/a1 = b2/a2 = 1,618....

(January 29, 2013 at 7:37 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Just an abstract comment, which was probably said 100000 times.

Most crazy muslims like me, love nature so much. They believe -the crazy muslims like me- that the proof to their holly book lies right there in the sky.
And also in the cherry blossom, why do people just don't look ?



I guess, most of our debates take part between zombies & beings full of emotions.
Visit japan. It has the best cherry trees ever, and of course : the best blossoms.

Maybe then you'll see an evidence, which might make my topic "a little bit" readable for atheists.

It might be that I didn't quite understand you, but don't ever assume that an atheist can't appreciate nature. Understanding the 'secrets' of nature doesn't make it any less fantastic (have you ever watched 'Planet Earth' or 'Life'?). But still, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, it still doesn't prove your point. Have you ever thought of why the sakura is shaped the way it is, why it has the color, why it blossoms at a particular time and so forth? When you've answered those questions, maybe you'll understand a little bit better.

(And yes, going to Japan during the hanami is on my to-do list.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanami

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2011_when.html (Beginner's Guide)

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2011.html April this year Kayenneh??

(January 30, 2013 at 1:48 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: April this year Kayenneh??

Oh, I wish.. Unfortunately I would have to actually save some money for a couple of years to be able to go.. '-_-

Quote:2-Humans were successors to a savage race of creations, killers (mostly animals, since the angeles thought that the new creation is also "going to shed blood & corrupt the land".

You haven't heard about the theory of the Jin haven't you ?

(January 29, 2013 at 8:13 pm)apophenia Wrote: Do you even lift?

In the extracted portion of your diagram, on the right, b is equal to the full length of the arm, but on the left to only a portion. Yet 'a' in both diagrams is the same. Since b1 <> b2, yet a1 = a2, it is mathematically impossible for b1/a1 = b2/a2 = 1,618....

The forearm, hands and fingers correspond to the ratio of phi anyway. The rest of the body as a whole taken as a whole can also be broken down into these proportions. There is also mention of heartbeat there and it's also present in the structure of DNA. So what could be possible is that life evolves to fit some kind of pre-existing template rather than it being purely non-random selection on random mutations. There would obviously have to be some kind of direction built into the process for this to work. You may expect intelligent life on alien worlds to fit these same proportions so humanoid beings could be common. But you don't from this directly to the Bible, the Quran, Dianetics or the Book of Mormon. This kind of thing does keep my mind more open than say Richard Dawkins and the New Atheist crew.

http://theimside.files.wordpress.com/201...-human.gif

(January 29, 2013 at 7:17 pm)Stimbo Wrote: As for the Lattice thing, I still don't see a connection between it and evolution of any kind, theistic or otherwise. At most we'd have some basis for a deistic nature to the Universe, starring as you say aliens instead of gods.

I was thinking that it might be something like Richard Dawkins' Weasel Program to cover all the scientific evidence for evolution in our simulation. This would be the equivalent of Theistic Evolution.

(January 29, 2013 at 7:37 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Most crazy muslims like me, love nature so much. They believe -the crazy muslims like me- that the proof to their holly book lies right there in the sky.
And also in the cherry blossom, why do people just don't look ?

The Jesuits seem to have that world view.

Jesuits Science And Technology

Quote:Science and Technology
From the early days of the founding of the Society of Jesus, the Jesuits have been engaged in various intellectual enterprises. These have included teaching, research, and writing. The Jesuit thrust to "find God in all things" has had the result that these efforts were not solely confined to the more "ecclesiastical" disciplines (like philosophy and theology), but were extended to the more "mundane" or "secular" disciplines. In the areas of science and technology many Jesuits have made, and continue to make, contributions. These contributions range from astronomy and algebra to natural history and geography.

I'm guessing that the staff of the Vatican Observatory are finding God in outer space.

Vatican Observatory Research Highlights

Quote:Among the cutting edge work being done at the Vatican include models for the stellar evolution of tidally stripped stars in binary systems; the characterization of meteor mass, density, and thermal properties from a statistical analysis of meteor light curves; and the development of a framework for observationally testing cosmological models that do not presume large-scale homogeneity, and thus go beyond the standard Freeman-Lemaitre- Robertson-Walker interpretation of cosmological data.

Even beyond those subjects, research topics at the Vatican range from string theory and observing galactic clusters to the search for extrasolar planets. The Vatican astronomers come from nearly every continent (no Australians at the moment, but our members have done research in Antarctica!) and touch nearly every field of modern astronomy.