(March 11, 2013 at 10:21 pm)missluckie26 Wrote:

Quote:I wasn't talking to you but...I've taken account of your feelings! I'll pray for you. I think you have many "good" Christian attributes including LOVE for others.... You just need to have some love for God, and yourself.

...btw, I won't be changing my avatar of MT...she is still miles away better than me or anyone I know!

Ron

Forgive me for callin you a Miss, mister Ron. You were speaking to me because your sweeping generalizations about athiests, included me too. Pray for me if you wish. Seems like a waste of your time to me but hey. And for the record, I do love myself more now than before. Losing an affectation of love from an unknown unseen unheard entity did not cause my self worth to go down. Moreover, it went up. Because no one's will is more important than mine. I lived a lifetime being held down by my own beliefs on women, finances, health, happiness, whom I should marry, and my families representations of the bibe on how to live ones life. I didn't have an ounce of self-confidence until I freed myself of it, by freeing myself of this idea of the authority that sets everything in that sociality in motion. My confidence is built back up every day because life now isn't clouded in rules that I had to abide by in fear of eternal damnation. If my will says who gives a flying hoot if some guy wants to marry another guy: I don't have any fictitious reasoning holding me back from doing what's right. I feel good about myself because I get to actually do what is right by those around me--not for a reward, after life but a reward on this earth in my own heart. I don't have to temper my own beliefs on a matter with the age old ones of the bible, most of which I disagreed with anyways. I support the religious in my life, if that's what makes them happy than so be it. But you best believe that if the church they give their tithes to turned out to have pedophiles at every priory or if their missionaries were hoarding offerings and not using them for what they were meant to be used for: they would not continue supporting such an institution, nor would they display proudly the pictures of these people proudly without remorse or responsibility.

Hi Miss Luckie, Sorry for the late reply, but I have a very busy life!

I understand your feelings, and the generalization made was partly out of anger...but also based in some fact! I have family members that are atheist, and agnostic. My dad who is an atheist and 75 years old is terrified of dying! Most atheists I've had the conversation about dying, were either annoyed or scared and didn't really feel comfortable talking about it at any great length.

So, there are many brave and relaxed people here that are secure in their demise! Bravo for them! What keeps me unafraid of death is my faith. I'm a strong personality to begin with...but I have my emotional limits...and that's were God takes over in my life! Actually I'm "trying" to let Him take over my entire live! But it's a process always in the works!

And speaking of generalizations...Not all Christians, and Catholics in "general" are as you have portrayed them! Actually, many Catholics (not including myself) are very, very liberal minded. I probably don't need to tell you this, but on the other side of the coin you didn't need to tell me either.

I didn't mean to assume you didn't love yourself either...but they usually go hand in hand with everything you were talking about! I hope we can be friends despite our differences? Ron

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(March 11, 2013 at 4:33 am)Esquilax Wrote: Perhaps I won't find your answer, but I do know why: you made it up.

However, let's talk stats, and bear in mind when I say this, I'm going by what the prisoners themselves identified as: according to the federal bureau of prisons, the religious occupy a proportionally higher percentage of the prison population than the general population, and this is also true of Catholics as a denomination. Meanwhile, for contrast, in terms of atheists, the results are reversed; nonbelievers are proportionally lower in prison than they are in the outside world. You can look all this up, too.

Oh, and since you've already thrown out a no true scotsman, let me add this: you don't get to decide what people believe. Your opinions on the religious practices of others and whether that makes them real catholics or not means approximately jack shit. Your lack of an imprimatur doesn't somehow suck all the religion out of a person.

I "made it up"?

Well.... 27 years teaching in a maximum security prison should be a little insight? Perhaps?

Unless that crap was to provoke my answer? I guess it dosen't matter to your true statistics.... so I won't tell you the shit "I made up".

I'm not interested in bending anyones religion to suit myself! There is only one person who can do that....and neither of us are Him.

I said from the day I stepped into this forum, that I was here to challenge my own faith and have intelligent conversations for and against God.

So far? It's a tangled mess of sick humor, emotional baggage and anger against each other and God. And YES...I'm no innocent participant!

But, I'll keep plugging for...God!

(March 14, 2013 at 12:06 pm)ronedee Wrote: I "made it up"?

Well.... 27 years teaching in a maximum security prison should be a little insight? Perhaps?

It'd be an insight into your own personal experience, nothing more. Unless you are very special and worked in every prison in the country simultaneously, and doing so interacted with every prisoner and could see into their minds to ascertain their true religion. But I think I'm safe in assuming you didn't do that.

On the other hand, the statistics conflict with your limited personal experience. Hence, when you're trying to apply your singular view to the entire society, you are, in fact, making it up.

Quote:This is about defaming Christians, and Catholics in particular.

You fuckers defame yourselves. Don't blame us for merely pointing it out.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentar...le9761162/

Quote:The Spanish newspaper El Pais quotes from a 1995 memoir by Father Jalics, who now lives in Germany, in which he accuses Father Bergoglio of betraying them.

“Many people who held far-right political beliefs frowned on our presence in the slums,” the priest writes. “They thought we were living there in support of the guerrillas, and set out to denounce us as terrorists. We knew which way the wind was blowing, and who was responsible for these slanders. So I went to [Father Bergoglio] and explained that they were playing with our lives. He promised that the military would be told that we were not terrorists. But from subsequent statements by an officer and 30 documents that we were able to access later, we saw without doubt that [Father Bergoglio] had not kept his promise but, on the contrary, had filed a false complaint with the military.”

No big surprise. If your fucking church could cozy up to Hitler and Mussolini it makes Argentina seem mild by comparison.

Meanwhile....it appears you have merely elected another fuckhead like the last nazi stooge.

(March 14, 2013 at 12:32 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(March 14, 2013 at 12:06 pm)ronedee Wrote: I "made it up"?

Well.... 27 years teaching in a maximum security prison should be a little insight? Perhaps?

It'd be an insight into your own personal experience, nothing more. Unless you are very special and worked in every prison in the country simultaneously, and doing so interacted with every prisoner and could see into their minds to ascertain their true religion. But I think I'm safe in assuming you didn't do that.

On the other hand, the statistics conflict with your limited personal experience. Hence, when you're trying to apply your singular view to the entire society, you are, in fact, making it up.

"limited experience"?! whatever dude!

And I haven't made anything up...yet!

Since you're the one doing all the assuming about me, its safe to say: you have the limits.

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[quote='Minimalist' pid='414622' dateline='1363279502']

Quote:Meanwhile....it appears you have merely elected another fuckhead like the last nazi stooge.

Well thanks for pointing that out!

Next time we need a pope I'll direct them to you as the authoritive "head" for who NOT to chose. Of course, YOU would be on that list too!

(March 14, 2013 at 1:18 pm)ronedee Wrote: "limited experience"?! whatever dude!

And I haven't made anything up...yet!

Since you're the one doing all the assuming about me, its safe to say: you have the limits.

Oh! You're omnipotent, are you? Funny, I thought that was something you reserved for your god. Hey, what am I thinking?

When I say limited experience I mean that you're just one person, and you can't possibly speak to the entire prison population, and nor should you. But you did. Which was wrong.

Now, was I wrong in assuming that you are a human being, and not some form of meta-consciousness that has existed at every point in the universe simultaneously? Was that a leap I shouldn't have made?

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(March 14, 2013 at 1:18 pm)ronedee Wrote: Well thanks for pointing that out!

Next time we need a pope I'll direct them to you as the authoritive "head" for who NOT to chose. Of course, YOU would be on that list too!

I would think that everybody would be on Min's list for who shouldn't be pope. I mean, I don't know the guy that well, but he sure doesn't seem like such a fan of the catholic church.

(March 14, 2013 at 1:38 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(March 14, 2013 at 1:18 pm)ronedee Wrote: "limited experience"?! whatever dude!

And I haven't made anything up...yet!

Since you're the one doing all the assuming about me, its safe to say: you have the limits.

Oh! You're omnipotent, are you? Funny, I thought that was something you reserved for your god. Hey, what am I thinking?

When I say limited experience I mean that you're just one person, and you can't possibly speak to the entire prison population, and nor should you. But you did. Which was wrong.

Now, was I wrong in assuming that you are a human being, and not some form of meta-consciousness that has existed at every point in the universe simultaneously? Was that a leap I shouldn't have made?

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(March 14, 2013 at 1:18 pm)ronedee Wrote: Well thanks for pointing that out!

Next time we need a pope I'll direct them to you as the authoritive "head" for who NOT to chose. Of course, YOU would be on that list too!

I would think that everybody would be on Min's list for who shouldn't be pope. I mean, I don't know the guy that well, but he sure doesn't seem like such a fan of the catholic church.

LOL! You are right about ol Mini ! He seem to have a hard-on for every one!

Hey Esquii! It's FOOD! And I have been to, and talked with many others in this country. But it's not something you would brag about lest you lose your yummies!

The "new" muslims as I like to call that group....hate just about everything else! Especially getting up at dawn...and on their knees facing east several times a day!

But the food is the best you can get in the "system"!

(March 14, 2013 at 1:59 pm)ronedee Wrote: Hey Esquii! It's FOOD! And I have been to, and talked with many others in this country. But it's not something you would brag about lest you lose your yummies!

The "new" muslims as I like to call that group....hate just about everything else! Especially getting up at dawn...and on their knees facing east several times a day!

But the food is the best you can get in the "system"!

Um... how... how is any of this even remotely connected to what I said?

(March 14, 2013 at 2:28 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Um... how... how is any of this even remotely connected to what I said?

Ok, I'll leave out the personal touch from now on....um here ya go!

(March 14, 2013 at 1:38 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Oh! You're omnipotent, are you? Funny, I thought that was something you reserved for your god. Hey, what am I thinking?

Just stating the obvious.

(March 14, 2013 at 1:38 pm)Esquilax Wrote: When I say limited experience I mean that you're just one person, and you can't possibly speak to the entire prison population, and nor should you. But you did. Which was wrong.

I've talked to literally hundreds of inmates and personnel over the years...How many have you talked with?

(March 14, 2013 at 1:38 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Now, was I wrong in assuming that you are a human being, and not some form of meta-consciousness that has existed at every point in the universe simultaneously? Was that a leap I shouldn't have made?

Your first mistake was assuming anything....and secondly your attempt, in vain I might add, to mop-up your faux pas in carrying this dialogue on.

(March 14, 2013 at 3:40 pm)ronedee Wrote: I've talked to literally hundreds of inmates and personnel over the years...How many have you talked with?

It doesn't matter how many I've talked to: I'm arguing against the veracity of personal experience, in this case. I'm merely going by the raw numbers, the statistical data that will reach far further than either you or I could do on our own.

I don't think running a non-profit organization that has problems or doesn't get enough funding makes you a bad person. All organizations have problems.