(March 22, 2013 at 12:27 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Do you think that is a little bit arrogant to expect that God repeats himself along the same intervals as can be appreciated by science?

Arrogant? Not at all. If He is real, He should have no problem identifying himself for us. The only thing His absence does is further verify His existence for the believer who relies solely upon faith and seeks no evidence whatsoever because of what is written in a fictitious book.

What if God reveals God's nature to people that sanctify themselves first? God wants people to repent of their sins and choose to seek God.

What if God doesn't intend to prove God's ways to people and God hides himself, but God does give a witness to people that seek after the ways of God.

The LORD tests the heart.

(March 22, 2013 at 12:23 pm)jstrodel Wrote: What you posted isn't even close to a diagnostic criteria. You have a vicious double standard, expecting things in the language of science which predate and influenced science and are of a different and higher nature, and not even subjecting your own criticisms, arising from the science of psychiatry, to any sort of diagnostic criteria that remotely resembles real medecine.

You don't care about evidence, you care about culture war. You are a sophist. You could care less if my experience is genuine, what you want is to prove atheism. You will never use the same standard you attack others with to justify your own beliefs.

You could not even line a single post that I write up with diagnostic criteria, yet you expect me to put mysticism in a journal format that is foreign to its nature.

Are you even aware that the present state of science and academia and the methods and disciplines of the modern world only go back to the 19th century?

There have been many mystics who have been philosophers and intellectuals, the monastic movement is full of them. Look them up.

You are making unreasonable demands of me. How would I have a peer reviewed journal to put my experiences in? Why can't you just hear what someone says, not make any judgements about theology, and neither accept nor reject absolutely the evidence that is a testimony from an honest person?

You can't disprove my experience. I have done drugs, so have most of the people that post on this message board. So what. You have no evidence that I am obsessive compulsive. You just made that up.

Oh, but you are quite wrong. I am EXTREMELY interested in the veracity of your experiences. See, as an atheist, I do not believe in god because there in no evidence that would convince me he is real. If your experiences were real, that would be evidence of supernatural occurrences, which would certainly begin to advance your god claim.

There is no double standard. I ask of you only what I ask of other claims: reasonable evidence that they are more likely true than not. My motivation is not to spread atheism. My motivation is to spread TRUTH. My "culture war" stems from misfits and idiots like you who try to stuff your pathetic religion down my throat and legislate your bullshit ideas into my government.

Why can't I accept testimony from an honest person? Because YOU HAVE AN AGENDA. That fact alone disqualifies your testimony from being objective in any way.

As for the obsessive/compulsive thing, I believe you, yourself, said in a post that you had suffered from it in the past but that when you found god, all of that went away. Am I wrong? I will make an attempt to find your actual quote.

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(March 22, 2013 at 12:27 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Would you demand replicable, independently verifiable evidence to prove a crime?

FUCK YES!!!!!

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(March 22, 2013 at 12:34 pm)jstrodel Wrote: What if God reveals God's nature to people that sanctify themselves first? God wants people to repent of their sins and choose to seek God.

What if God doesn't intend to prove God's ways to people and God hides himself, but God does give a witness to people that seek after the ways of God.

The LORD tests the heart.

Then he is an elitist, arrogant, self-serving, vain, hypocritical thug.

I have never been obsessive compulsive.

You have not given a single piece of evidence that says my experience matches the DSM IV criteria.

But I have given you evidence of historical events that I have witnessed and others have confirmed. I could not give "replicable" evidence, because the nature of spiritual experience is that God only repeats himself on specific conditions. God is not circuit that you can see whether it turns on or off if you plug something in.

Do all your beliefs about everything come from science? Do you believe it is possible to listen to someone and just hear what they have to say, without passing any judgement or making any theory about their mental state or creating some new "hypothesis" to justify your atheist position?

(March 22, 2013 at 12:34 pm)jstrodel Wrote: What if

You sure do seem to be making a great deal of excuses for this God of yours. What if is not a valid argument, because it reinforces the notion that you have as little knowledge regarding God as the rest of us, despite the fact that you apparently know Him. If He does indeed communicate with you, why the what ifs?

The Holy Spirit just gave me a prophetic word. I received an image in my mind showing me the name "George Mueller". George Mueller was a man who relied on God for miraculous provision. He ran a very large orphanage completely off of miraculous provision from prayer. God works through people, like George Mueller who was like a saint. I do not think you are going to find many scientific proofs of miracles in a way that offers replicable miracles that happen upon a certain incantation of formula, because God works through humans and their personal walks with God. The nature of what miracles are is personal.

http://www.amazon.com/George-Muller-Man-...rge+muller

I have experienced miraculous provision in my own life. It is real.

(March 22, 2013 at 12:47 pm)jstrodel Wrote: It is real.

Ok, let's take this slowly.


PROVE


IT

Shall we try again? On the same line this time:

Prove it.

(March 22, 2013 at 12:40 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Do you believe it is possible to listen to someone and just hear what they have to say, without passing any judgement or making any theory about their mental state or creating some new "hypothesis" to justify your atheist position?

No, I do not believe this is possible for me or for anyone else, including you.

Our fundamental nature as humans means that we interpret anything coming in through our senses through our own biases, experience and desires.

You are the one creating new hypotheses with all of your "What ifs". Please show me where I have offered any sort of hypothesis regarding your claims.

Can you cite a single example of any crime in history which has been judged through primarily assessing replicable evidence? Epistemology is culturally and contextually defined you know.

jstrodel, why are you deflecting?