(November 27, 2009 at 12:21 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: @ Sae

I understand faith to be belief without evidence. So to take evidence on faith, is incompatible with my definition.

Evidence is something that gives indication, that you take in. If there is such indication, if there is evidence, then your belief is evidence-based. If, however, you believe without any evidence whatsoever, if you take it on faith, if you just "have faith", which is blind, then your belief is faith-based and not evidence-based. And there is nothing more baseless, at least in my opinion, than faith-based belief.

EvF

Isn't believing something without evidence a stupid thing to do.
If I stepped off a cliff in the belief that a ledge would break my fall without evidence that the ledge existed... ok poor example but you get my reasoning I hope.

Christ doesn't have a birthday because he never existed.

Yeah, CP, ultimately that is the answer.

(November 28, 2009 at 8:33 am)chatpilot Wrote: Christ doesn't have a birthday because he never existed.

Yes, this is the answer, but it's still fun to see the absolute bullshit that the buybull contains. This is just another fallacy on a very long list.

(November 28, 2009 at 8:33 am)chatpilot Wrote: Christ doesn't have a birthday because he never existed.

Dang me, Chatty, you're right! So why did we have all this goddam argument?

Quote:Isn't believing something without evidence a stupid thing to do.

Not necessarily. We often believe something because there is no reason not to believe it,because "it seems reasonable"

I will accept a lot of things without direct evidence; EG much from first degree relatives. Past experience has shown I can trust them. [at least within limits I understand] I accept what they tell me on face value ,and act on that information,even though I may not have any proof. I think that's called 'acting on faith'

Human beings do it constantly day-to-day. When it exceeds an undefined reasonableness,one is considered 'gullible'. Many atheists here (including me) consider say creationists,conspiracy theorists, and people who give money to televangelists to be gullible.

(November 28, 2009 at 7:53 pm)padraic Wrote:

Quote:Isn't believing something without evidence a stupid thing to do.

Not necessarily. We often believe something because there is no reason not to believe it,because "it seems reasonable"

I will accept a lot of things without direct evidence; EG much from first degree relatives. Past experience has shown I can trust them. [at least within limits I understand] I accept what they tell me on face value ,and act on that information,even though I may not have any proof. I think that's called 'acting on faith'

Human beings do it constantly day-to-day. When it exceeds an undefined reasonableness,one is considered 'gullible'. Many atheists here (including me) consider say creationists,conspiracy theorists, and people who give money to televangelists to be gullible.

This is also where "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" comes in. If someone tells me they can juggle with 3 tennis balls and is absolutely adamant about it, but there's no tennis balls around to prove it; I may be inclined to believe them. If someone tells me they can walk on water - my bulshit detector kicks in.

This isn't exactly acting on faith (i.e. the tennis ball example), its more a subconscious calculation of probability; or application of, as you say, reasonableness. It's not outside the bounds of expection to see someone juggling 3 tennis balls, but it is to see someone walking on water.

Hmmm..... I love my family, too but I wouldn't believe much of what they tell me.

I agree.

I am glad that we mostly agree on the impossibility of Christ having a birthday based on his non-existence. Padraic, I don't consider trusting what a family member or close friend states as true the same thing as faith. Because in most cases what a friend or family member tells you can usually be verified in one form or another and is not beyond the reach of investigation, as is the existence of God and the many claims and miracles of the bible. I used to equate trust with faith but although faith contains trust it's what you are placing your trust in that makes a difference. Trust in something mundane such as a rumor or an urban legend is a far cry from trusting something supramundane and outside of all verification or investigation.