Mate you are fucked up!

(May 20, 2013 at 5:55 pm)Arellius Wrote:

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Because I've gotten more into researching religion, I've come across some shocking details. Allot of you might already know this and it probably has already been discussed a million times, however I couldn't resist starting a topic about it.

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I had a conversation with a colleague of mine who is Islamic. So I asked her ''Was Aisha really between the ages of 6 and 9 ?!'' And she confirmed, but she told me Muhammad had married her so she would not get raped. Because that was very common back then. It's now unclear to me whether or not they had intercourse, but still... A grown man marrying a child as young as 9 is just gross. Putting it mildly. It can be argued that ''times were different'' back then, but then I think they were pretty ignorant to the biological functions of humans, especially women. It is WORLD NEWS when a grown man (21+) has intercourse with another human being that's even younger than a teenager. Today, the whole world would be sickened at such news.

The whole world minus Islamic countries, you mean?

Quote:Another detail I came across (Christianity) is that Joseph was said to be in his 40's ? I read other articles where Roman Catholic priests argue that he was 90. Well fine, between the ages of 40 and 90. Then I read that Maria was just hitting her teens ?! That she was between the ages of 12 and 14. And she bares a child. Not only that........

Well firstly that's wrong. Joseph could have been any age, but he isn't described as being between 40 and 90 in the Bible, I think you'll find some obscure Catholic nonsense about that which holds no credibility.

As for girls, there is disagreement among scholars/Jewish historians on this. Some believe that girls were typically betrothed at the time of puberty (~12). Others believe betrothment usually occurred between the ages of 14-15 for girls. It doesn't make much difference and you are missing the point on all this anyway.

Joseph was probably older, and probably between the ages of 16-17. At the time of betrothment that is (not the time of marriage). Going by what the historians tell us was typical Jewish betrothment.

Girls in western society have typically married young too until recently. 100 years ago it was quite usual for girls to get married at ~15, and the were typically considered "lucky".

What you have to remember is that education didn't exist the way it does now, and there was not much opportunity for girls who did not get husbands. There is a HUGE difference between this and Islam, a huge difference. And a huge difference between it and paedophilia too.

Quote:1. So God knows how we will all develop in the next 2000 years to come, how death could be wished upon a man who'm is in an intimate relationship with a barely-teenage girl.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, God's child, Mary was a virgin, I know. [sigh] But still, they were husband and wife. If a man showed up at my door with his barely-teenage wife, I'd beat the shit out of him then call the police.

You're exaggerating. Joseph was likely 2 or 3 years older than Mary.

Quote:''But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife.''

Yes she was his wife, and it is such a damn shame that Freud wasn't around at that time. He could of talked to Joseph about his dream.

2. Not to mention all those infamous and disgusting priests that we all know of. I work at Madame Tussaud and there is a wax figure there of Paulus Johannes II - I chuckle each and every time a little boy sits on the seat next to him to make a picture.

And now you've raised a third, separate, issue.

Quote:3. Times might of been different back then, however. Couldn't God of made an 11th Commandment ? ''Thous shalt not bed minors.'' Or something like that.

God knew what was coming, we all detest pedophiles, horrible people! So why let it go on for so long if ''Times were different'' back then ?! I'm 100% with Christopher Hitchens on God being a tyrant on that one.

In our society you finish school (including higher studies if applicable) and then get married. In their society they didn't have schools, when you were old enough (man) you started working and when you were old enough (girl) you got married. What exactly is a girl going to do between the ages of 13 and 19 in a society with 1. no education that's available to girls, and 2. a male-centred workforce?

Quote:4. I believe it was a man made decision for adults to not have intercourse with children. Mankind developed and eventually (finally) saw the disgusting aspect of grown men having sex with girls between the ages of 6/7 and 13/14.

Let's just say mankind had not come to it's senses and did not develop on the subject of sex and intercourse, what kind of suck world would this be ?! And God would just watch...

Well, again, what did you think girls would do at the time of Christ with no husband and no future? Wouldn't that look pretty bleak for them?

Quote:I tried to look it up but I couldn't find any information which says that the Bible prohibits underage sex. It was common for 13 year old girls to wed and bed back then, but seriously...With a 35+ year old adult !!?? Sickening. And the world [mankind] today would think so too.

Again, no it wasn't common for 13 year olds to wed men in their 30's/40's. It was common for them to wed men 2-3 years older than them.

Quote:I don't think, after what I read and found out, that I could ever accept the religions containing these stories. No matter what the underlying lesson is, underage sex is sick. Period.

I'm open to all info, maybe someone could give some more info on the subject or how it was exactly. Theories are good, facts are even better...

See the info provided above for you.

(May 23, 2013 at 5:48 am)littleendian Wrote: The issue is that a child cannot be expected to understand the full consequences of his/her actions, including all the potential emotional baggage associated with having interecourse with older people at a young age. While it might be fun at the time, it can cause serious emotional trouble later on, a fact that the child can not be expected to understand, the older men however can be expected to understand this, and that is exactly why it must be illegal, and for very damn good reasons.

Why can't a child be expected to understand the full consequences of their actions, as separate from the inability of all people to know the entirety of that which would result by their actions?

How does a fun and rewarding experience translate to serious emotional trouble later on?

What are these very damn good reasons? I'd like to know.

(May 23, 2013 at 5:48 am)littleendian Wrote: The issue is that a child cannot be expected to understand the full consequences of his/her actions, including all the potential emotional baggage associated with having interecourse with older people at a young age. While it might be fun at the time, it can cause serious emotional trouble later on, a fact that the child can not be expected to understand, the older men however can be expected to understand this, and that is exactly why it must be illegal, and for very damn good reasons.

Why can't the child be expected to know things? (By the way, she probably wasn't a child when she was having sex - probably a teen) Why are there consequences to sex? Why is there emotional baggage tied to sex? Why can the older (and specifically men) be expected to understand things?

So far I don't see a reason why it should be illegal. Just a bunch of assertions that leave me with loose ends =/

You'll understand once you're a proper grown-up, don't worry your little head about it for now.

(May 23, 2013 at 3:32 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote: You'll understand once you're a proper grown-up, don't worry your little head about it for now.

When will that be? What characteristics will I posses then that I do not posses now?

Will I have to lose my ability to reason to become a "proper grown-up"?

Maybe Peter Pan had the right idea

(May 23, 2013 at 3:53 pm)Violet Lilly Blossom Wrote:

(May 23, 2013 at 3:32 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote: You'll understand once you're a proper grown-up, don't worry your little head about it for now.

When will that be? What characteristics will I posses then that I do not posses now?

I vividly remember how I hated it when people used to play the age-card on me when I was younger, so believe me I don't do this frivolously, but I suspect you will understand when you get older. You change fundamentally as you get older, anybody does...

(May 23, 2013 at 3:53 pm)Violet Lilly Blossom Wrote: Will I have to lose my ability to reason to become a "proper grown-up"?

I'm a great supporter of reason, but there are things that are so complex that we have to trust our instincts, or at least leave open as "unpredictable", simply because there are so many variables involved. The human might be the most complex entity on the planet (universe?) and when two of these come together something even more complex comes into existence that can no longer be grasped, at least not by my puny little brain, and although you might really be as smart as you let on to be I suspect even you will fail to analyze this with reason.

(May 24, 2013 at 4:24 am)littleendian Wrote: I vividly remember how I hated it when people used to play the age-card on me when I was younger, so believe me I don't do this frivolously, but I suspect you will understand when you get older. You change fundamentally as you get older, anybody does...

The age-card is often irrelevant to me, doesn't stop it being ridiculous. I suspect that I already understand every single reason people are ageist or otherwise make ageist decisions (and it's not actually due to age, but to their expectations of it)... but wouldn't it be great if JUST ONCE someone arguing on the other side even remotely understood WHY they believe as they do. Attempting to teach those unwilling to learn gets old... it's almost as if you can't teach old retards new things

Example: What ARE these fundamental changes?

Quote:I'm a great supporter of reason, but there are things that are so complex that we have to trust our instincts, or at least leave open as "unpredictable", simply because there are so many variables involved.

It's complex, so we have to trust our instincts?

* Violet giggles.

There are few variables regarding the issue at hand. Maybe if you thought about it just a little bit... well, that's me being optimistic

Quote:The human might be the most complex entity on the planet (universe?) and when two of these come together something even more complex comes into existence that can no longer be grasped, at least not by my puny little brain, and although you might really be as smart as you let on to be I suspect even you will fail to analyze this with reason.

Planet. Sort of.

You are indeed making a good case for your brain's puniness, but then: that's in character, and I'm unsurprised.

I wouldn't be asking people if I didn't think that I could learn something, or if I wasn't attempting to teach them something. You're not half as worthless as you think you are, but I can't force you to show yourself.

Quote:Joseph could have been any age, but he isn't described as being between 40 and 90 in the Bible.

Kind of a contradiction here, so any age means; only between 1 and 30 ?

Quote:Joseph was probably older, and probably between the ages of 16-17

You say 'he was probably'. So where did you get the information from ? The Bible ? What passage/page..

Quote:In our society

The Bible, was manifested in their society, no ? You follow the Bible and believe in it I presume, so why couldn't they do what we do today ? Oh that's right ! It's because we, in today's society, have come a tad more to our senses.

Quote:What exactly is a girl going to do between the ages of 13 and 19 in a society with 1. no education that's available to girls, and 2. a male-centered workforce?

Does this make under age sex oke ? Does it make it alright for a man in his 30's or 40's to marry a girl under the age of 15 ?

Quote:Again, no it wasn't common for 13 year olds to wed men in their 30's/40's. It was common for them to wed men 2-3 years older than them.

See the movie ''Desert Flower'' made in 2009 - Where the young [not even a teenager] Waris Dirie ran away from the Nomad deserts because she was a bout to be married to a much older man, creepy lookin' motherfucker. This happened in the 20th century, it is common in religion.

I mostly am referring to all religions where under age sex occurs. You listen to your superiors preach teachings to be a saint but leave out such important, sometimes horrifying, details. When you are raised to listen and believe that what is being told to you is good, of course you will even take the garbage being said into consideration. So if you heard that Joseph was that young from your local priest (or superior of your religion) you are inclined to believe it. And if you question it ? You will be taught to believe that the person who is giving you the info got it from God. They most likely speak to each other daily through text.

I will send your phrase given to me at the start of your post in the opposite direction

Quote:Mate you are fucked up!

Oh ffs, people.....

If you and your fellow citizens can establish that pedophilia is counterproductive to the goal you are aspiring to, it's pretty easy to make it illegal - without it ever having to be "wrong".



.....,................

If someone disagrees...well good for them, so long as they aren't trying to avail themselves of the benefits conferred by you and your fellow citizens. Move out to the desert and fuck kids all day long - it's been done before-.

Illegal is enough for me, it doesn't have to be "wrong".

(May 23, 2013 at 12:33 pm)Violet Lilly Blossom Wrote:

(May 23, 2013 at 5:48 am)littleendian Wrote: The issue is that a child cannot be expected to understand the full consequences of his/her actions, including all the potential emotional baggage associated with having interecourse with older people at a young age. While it might be fun at the time, it can cause serious emotional trouble later on, a fact that the child can not be expected to understand, the older men however can be expected to understand this, and that is exactly why it must be illegal, and for very damn good reasons.

Why can't a child be expected to understand the full consequences of their actions, as separate from the inability of all people to know the entirety of that which would result by their actions?

How does a fun and rewarding experience translate to serious emotional trouble later on?

What are these very damn good reasons? I'd like to know.

(May 23, 2013 at 2:52 pm)Gilgamesh Wrote:

(May 23, 2013 at 5:48 am)littleendian Wrote: The issue is that a child cannot be expected to understand the full consequences of his/her actions, including all the potential emotional baggage associated with having interecourse with older people at a young age. While it might be fun at the time, it can cause serious emotional trouble later on, a fact that the child can not be expected to understand, the older men however can be expected to understand this, and that is exactly why it must be illegal, and for very damn good reasons.

Why can't the child be expected to know things? (By the way, she probably wasn't a child when she was having sex - probably a teen) Why are there consequences to sex? Why is there emotional baggage tied to sex? Why can the older (and specifically men) be expected to understand things?

So far I don't see a reason why it should be illegal. Just a bunch of assertions that leave me with loose ends =/

I suppose you could teach a child what sex entailed before they reached puberty, and I mean more than just the motions of sex and sex ed.

I contend, though, that since they do not have a sexual nature, this would be nothing more than a curiosity that adults partake in, like drinking fine wine and beer and knocking each others brains out, preferably in a large bed.