DP Wrote:What amazes me is the sheer arrogance of Christians like John V, Frodo, Ronedee and others. They first try to ridicule and dismiss my post on secular morality calling me stupid or ignorant. One must expect that their views on morality must be so advanced, so nuanced, so well thought out as to justify such derision and off-hand dismissal. When I finally pry a non-ad-hominem reply out of John V, here is the jewel in the crown of his religious-based morality (have a seat and get ready):

I don't think Fr0d0 deserves to be included with the likes of ronedee. Even putting JohnV in there is stretching it, although I do agree with you that he's arrogant. Mainly I think there's a difference between arrogance and assurance. Frodo is merely assured in his beliefs, but I don't see arrogance displayed.

(June 14, 2013 at 2:38 am)missluckie26 Wrote: I don't think Fr0d0 deserves to be included with the likes of ronedee. Even putting JohnV in there is stretching it, although I do agree with you that he's arrogant. Mainly I think there's a difference between arrogance and assurance. Frodo is merely assured in his beliefs, but I don't see arrogance displayed.

"The likes of ronedee"

Well... I guess I'm in a class all my own!

It's tough being an "arrogant" Christian! I missed the martyrdom classes at church.

Are you... implying that you are a martyr?

Well, I originally put nutjobs..

I realise this was in response to DP but if you'll indulge:

(June 14, 2013 at 12:59 am)ronedee Wrote: 1. How can you say there isn't a God? For lack of proof? Isn't that like saying there isn't a 10th, 11th, and 12th planet? I choose to believe there is because of 1-9!

Other than the minor point that saying there isn't a god is not a standard atheist position - let alone a deist one! - comparing gods to planets is a bit silly. We tend not to beieve the existence of planets simply on faith, as is the requirement for a god. If I had one other real, observable god to examine, I'd have very little trouble believing in a second or a third or more.

(June 14, 2013 at 12:59 am)ronedee Wrote: 2. If you refuse to believe there is a God.... How can you relate to anything spiritual? Its like complaining about Love when you've never experienced it.

It's not a question of refusing to believe. Again you're conflating genuine experiential, if not quantifiable concepts with purely faith-based ones. Until any god is even shown to be a thing, why should anyone believe in it?

(June 14, 2013 at 12:59 am)ronedee Wrote: 3. If God is considered Love & Good.... Whats not to like? Because the OT says He did bad things? Because there are pedophile priests? Or the one I heard here; I prayed He would save my mom from cancer, and He didn't?

The Problem Of Evil doesn't help the theists' case, certainly. However it's not the primary reason for me, at least, not to like this god of yours. It's that the character as written is clearly dangerously insane. Not exactly what you want in an infinitely powerful being, really.

ronedee Wrote: If we can agree that the "concept" of a God would be basically the same: Omnipotent/essent. Then God can do whatever the heck He wants!

And this is different from "might makes right" how, exactly?

For once I agree with ronny. God can be a cunt or could be if he existed.

Your problem remains to demonstrate via actual evidence that your god exists.... cunt or otherwise.

(June 14, 2013 at 1:23 pm)Minimalist Wrote: For once I agree with ronny. God can be a cunt or could be if he existed.

Your problem remains to demonstrate via actual evidence that your god exists.... cunt or otherwise.

A prick maybe... a cunt? I think not. At least in the pure definition of the words.

(June 14, 2013 at 1:40 pm)ronedee Wrote:

(June 14, 2013 at 1:23 pm)Minimalist Wrote: For once I agree with ronny. God can be a cunt or could be if he existed.

Your problem remains to demonstrate via actual evidence that your god exists.... cunt or otherwise.

A prick maybe... a cunt? I think not. At least in the pure definition of the words.

And why can God be a Woman?

(June 14, 2013 at 1:44 pm)Savannahw Wrote: And why can God be a Woman?

If God were a woman, it would be men being wheeled screaming into the delivery rooms while the women stand on the sides and helpfully advise "push".
[/tongue in cheek]

(June 14, 2013 at 1:05 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I realise this was in response to DP but if you'll indulge:


Other than the minor point that saying there isn't a god is not a standard atheist position - let alone a deist one! - comparing gods to planets is a bit silly. We tend not to beieve the existence of planets simply on faith, as is the requirement for a god. If I had one other real, observable god to examine, I'd have very little trouble believing in a second or a third or more.

It's not a question of refusing to believe. Again you're conflating genuine experiential, if not quantifiable concepts with purely faith-based ones. Until any god is even shown to be a thing, why should anyone believe in it?

Well, let me first say: that people here slip in and out of metaphors like silk underwear, and use them accordingly in arguments. So, I will in the future abstain from using them, except in extreme lack of understandings.

I can completely understand your point. The big problem is that every atheist has a different opinion. And when I address one, another hits me like a ton of bricks!

Yes, our religion is faith based. Also, being based in scripture and revelations from the Holy Spirit!

How, pray-tell can someone comment on the Holy Spirit unless they aspire to, or experienced Him?

It's really hard to describe the benefits of Faith. And believe me, I would love to share the experiences that I personally have had. But I've tried. No one cares. Everyone finds a way to debunk them. These "miracles" are too important, and precious to me to make light of.

So, we are at a stalemate. You need proof. But to get your proof you need to actually believe first.

(June 14, 2013 at 1:05 pm)Stimbo Wrote: The Problem Of Evil doesn't help the theists' case, certainly. However it's not the primary reason for me, at least, not to like this god of yours. It's that the character as written is clearly dangerously insane. Not exactly what you want in an infinitely powerful being, really.

I agree! But...He is eerily similar to us! At least in the "absolute power" realm. eh?

(June 14, 2013 at 1:05 pm)Stimbo Wrote: And this is different from "might makes right" how, exactly?

Well....again...I dunno? I don't really think about the OT! I like Psalms and Wisdom...and a few of the prophets....but its ancient history to me. The Gospel of Jesus is where I'm at. And Jesus says "His word and scrafice" is whats important. You won't find me defending much in the OT.

All that I can say is that since I let God into my life it's been a breeze! Not that anything different happened to me. The same shit that everyone goes through, I do also. But, I have many, many good moments now that I never had.

Like I've said, I have a lot of life experience and my career has put me in front of every kind of person known to man. I see what people are w/o God, and I've seen them who have Him.

Are there people that love God and are fuckups? Most definitely! Unfortunately, and unwillingly I know several. But, that's our cross to bear as Chrisitians. Specifically Catholics.

But I promise you, and everyone else who cares, that I would fight the evil-doers unto death to save a little one.

And I really wish God could reveal Himself to you and the others who need proof! I pray for it all the time! Because there is no greater joy to a Chrisitian than to be with all our brothers and sisters in paradise!

Thanks for your responses Stmbo! Ron