(July 18, 2013 at 4:03 am)Consilius Wrote: Can you get salt by pouring sodium and chlorine into a glass?

Actually, yeah. Except, you can't really "pour" either a gas or a solid - but if you put a piece of sodium in a glass full of chlorine, you will get salt. And destroy the glass in the process.

(July 18, 2013 at 4:03 am)Consilius Wrote: And no, I refuse your invitation to try anything again. I'm here explaining to you how water gets its coloration. Notice how glasses of water don't turn blue. Like I said, the whole retains the attributes of the parts if all parts share them. When the amount of water becomes large enough, the light acting upon it causes it to appear blue. The blueness is just an illusion produced by the effects of the light. You cannot say that the water is actually colored like an apple.

Your explanations are pointless. I know why water appears blue - and calling it an illusion is incorrect by the way.

The simple truth is, all parts of the water share the property of colorlessness and the whole does not. You can keep repeating ad nauseum why it appears blue, but that won't change the simple fact that the whole does not share the attributes of all its parts. And you can't point to light as the cause of color change because light remains the same in both cases.

Is pool water colored?

(July 18, 2013 at 10:12 pm)Consilius Wrote: Is pool water colored?

Public pool water can become colored if one urinates in it.

(July 18, 2013 at 10:12 pm)Consilius Wrote: Is pool water colored?

No - and that's my point. Pool water is not colored and yet the pool - which is entirely made of poo water - is colored.

Appears colored. The attribute of colorlessness has not actually changed. Illusion.

(July 19, 2013 at 12:37 am)Consilius Wrote: Appears colored. The attribute of colorlessness has not actually changed. Illusion.

Is colored. The attribute of colorlessness has actually changed. Not illusion.

Direct contradiction. The key to a healthy conversation.
But I can understand where your coming from, as the water actually DOES appear to be blue, as all colors truly do. Like Walking Void said, color itself is illusion.

(July 19, 2013 at 1:44 am)Consilius Wrote: Direct contradiction. The key to a healthy conversation.
But I can understand where your coming from, as the water actually DOES appear to be blue, as all colors truly do. Like Walking Void said, color itself is illusion.

He said that? Where?

You seem to have a poor understanding of what an illusion means and how it relates to the concept of color.

The color of an object is determined by the wavelength of light given out by it and received by our eyes. Whether that object itself is a source of light or the light is reflected or refracted or diffused in any other way is immaterial. An object gives out a particular wavelength of light - whether as a source or reflected - and that determines its color. That is not an illusion. That is objective reality.

That the color of an object changes with the change in nature and intensity of light on it or around it does not make it a illusion. It simply means that the color actually does change. When we say that an apple is red, we do not mean that it gives out the light with wavelength corresponding to the color red regardless of everything else. We mean that under white, the light reflected from it most closely approximates to the wavelength of color red. The term "under white light" is an unspoken premise. Saying that under blue light an apple is black is also factually correct. The black color is not an illusion.

An illusion would be the result of faulty perception. For example, in case of someone colorblind, the wavelength of light coming to his eyes would correspond to red, but due to lacking the necessary equipment he cannot correctly perceive it. Which is why, him perceiving the apple as grey would be an illusion. Its not necessarily a the result of of faulty perception either. For example, consider this image-



Here, the wavelength of the light coming from tiles A and B is the same - which is why they are of the same color. But because your mind is trained in perceiving objects in a particular manner, they appear to have different colors. Therefore this is an illusion - because the appearance does not match reality.

This is not a difficult concept to understand - or verify. All you need to do is eliminate the errors of human perception and compare the result. Get a machine that can identify colors without involving human perception in the process. If the conclusions of the machine match your own then what you are seeing is reality. If they don't, they what you are seeing is an illusion. You'll find out that in case of the given optical illusion, the machine correctly identifies tiles A and B as having the same color and in case of a pool, it identifies the color as blue. Therefore, the blue color of the pool is not an illusion.

If I dyed a large amount of water and put it into a pool, it would appear the same as an ordinary pool, probably. There is clearly a distinction from the way you use "colored" and the way that colored is genrally understood.

(July 19, 2013 at 6:25 am)Consilius Wrote: If I dyed a large amount of water and put it into a pool, it would appear the same as an ordinary pool, probably. There is clearly a distinction from the way you use "colored" and the way that colored is genrally understood.

If I painted an apple red and put it on the table, it would appear the same as an ordinary apple. So no, there is no distinction between the way I am using the word "colored" and the way it is generally used.