It seems to me the whole premise of a very powerful Satan who can delude you into believing a lie and you won't know it undermines the entire religious enterprise.

The thing about being deceived by Satan is,
you don't know your deceived!

How does a fundamentalist Christian know that aren't deceived and should be Jews or Muslims, or Hindu's or whatever?

I've been thinking about blogging on this point.

It seems that Christian demonology undermines Christianity because even if they say the evidence looks good to them they can't disprove that Satan is just deceiving them.

Just as no one could really prove that Satan is not deceiving them when apologists make the claim that they are, Christians cannot disprove that they are deceived.

The witness in their spirit just might be the devil.

So since by their religious claims there is an equal chance that their religious claims are crap their religious claims are crap!

The problem with christianity, islam, or any other theistic religion is the lack of evidence for their deities. The same goes for the deity enemy. Their god and their satan are both myths born from the ignorance of the times they were invented, and as our knowledge evolves, the more tiny their gods become.

I have contemplated what you said, I'd wager that satan could've been more moral than god, e.g. the adam and eve story, but that is pointless, its trying to build a reasonable explanation from a pile of bullshit. I could just as easily propose that god, a trikster gos will bring some atheists to heaven, because they did good on their own volition, than christians that did good only by fear of a deity. But that would be just making stories, evidence is what tells the difference between bullshit and reality.

EDIT: Nvm, you already been told about promoting links

(August 29, 2013 at 6:02 am)findingdoubt Wrote: It seems to me the whole premise of a very powerful Satan who can delude you into believing a lie and you won't know it undermines the entire religious enterprise.

Only if your understanding of Christianity is based on a legalistic understanding of the texts. In That one is required to walk a very thin line of righteousness. That is the only place being deceived and following that deception undermindes any version of Christianity.

Quote:The thing about being deceived by Satan is,
you don't know your deceived!

Not true. God's law has been established.

Quote:How does a fundamentalist Christian know that aren't deceived and should be Jews or Muslims, or Hindu's or whatever?

without the active comfirmation of god in your life, you don't just by looking on the surface.

Quote:I've been thinking about blogging on this point.

It seems that Christian demonology undermines Christianity because even if they say the evidence looks good to them they can't disprove that Satan is just deceiving them.

If 'satan's deception' brings them closer to God then how is his deception in his benfit?

Quote:Just as no one could really prove that Satan is not deceiving them when apologists make the claim that they are, Christians cannot disprove that they are deceived.

Again there is the matter of God's expressed will.

Quote:The witness in their spirit just might be the devil.

The Pharisees that Christ condemned as blasphemeing the Holy Spirit said something similar.

Quote:So since by their religious claims there is an equal chance that their religious claims are crap their religious claims are crap!

Again only if one is blind and deaf to the interaction between God and those who follow him.

The way I see it the only way your claim works is if 'the other religions' you mention also warn against satan as being a deceiver as well. For if one of them is correct then wouldn't stand to reason the god of that religion would also warn of satan?

(August 29, 2013 at 9:27 am)Drich Wrote:

(August 29, 2013 at 6:02 am)findingdoubt Wrote: It seems to me the whole premise of a very powerful Satan who can delude you into believing a lie and you won't know it undermines the entire religious enterprise.

Only if your understanding of Christianity is based on a legalistic understanding of the texts. In That one is required to walk a very thin line of righteousness. That is the only place being deceived and following that deception undermindes any version of Christianity.

This is rather funny. People who interprets the bible differently are deceived by Satan, but your version cannot be a deception. This is one step beyond the whole "other religions are fake, but mine is real" crazy.

Quote:

Quote:The thing about being deceived by Satan is,
you don't know your deceived!

Not true. God's law has been established.

You mean the bible that requires interpretation? Including the interpretation that you think is a deception (see above)?

Quote:

Quote:How does a fundamentalist Christian know that aren't deceived and should be Jews or Muslims, or Hindu's or whatever?

without the active comfirmation of god in your life, you don't just by looking on the surface.

Oh I assure you they have plenty of NDEs and active confirmation in their life to stay with their religion. Muslims are different though, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but none of my muslim friends have ever told me that allah said something to them. They quote the Qur'an. I believe this is because they've been told mohammed is the last prophet and they don't expect to hear things from allah. This is speculation on my part, and I'm very interested if anyone knows any muslims that claim allah said things to them?

Quote:

Quote:I've been thinking about blogging on this point.

It seems that Christian demonology undermines Christianity because even if they say the evidence looks good to them they can't disprove that Satan is just deceiving them.

If 'satan's deception' brings them closer to God then how is his deception in his benfit?

They're not going to the right god. Maybe the right god is allah. And his version of the devil is deceiving you into believing in the Christian god.

Quote:

Quote:Just as no one could really prove that Satan is not deceiving them when apologists make the claim that they are, Christians cannot disprove that they are deceived.

Again there is the matter of God's expressed will.

The one Satan led you to believe is the true god? Whose will is subject to human interpretation and has many many denominations all with different interpretations? I'm starting to see why you're so confident in your interpretation.

Quote:

Quote:The witness in their spirit just might be the devil.

The Pharisees that Christ condemned as blasphemeing the Holy Spirit said something similar.

How does this ... ? What is this random point? I thought you said blasphemy to the Holy Spirit means not believing in god till death. You said it so many times I'm sure I can quote you if you want it.

Quote:

Quote:So since by their religious claims there is an equal chance that their religious claims are crap their religious claims are crap!

Again only if one is blind and deaf to the interaction between God and those who follow him.

The way I see it the only way your claim works is if 'the other religions' you mention also warn against satan as being a deceiver as well. For if one of them is correct then wouldn't stand to reason the god of that religion would also warn of satan?

Muslims are warned of Syaitan. Same thing as Satan. What do you think about that?

Drippy, you're being a dork again. Stop.

What undermines the whole (monotheistic) religious enterprise is the irrational usage of myth to justify the suppression of humanity. The god notion itself actually does the suppression...the devil came about to explain those peoples who refused god's yoke.

Go Team Satan! :p

(August 29, 2013 at 7:08 am)LastPoet Wrote: The problem with christianity, islam, or any other theistic religion is the lack of evidence for their deities. The same goes for the deity enemy. Their god and their satan are both myths born from the ignorance of the times they were invented, and as our knowledge evolves, the more tiny their gods become.

I have contemplated what you said, I'd wager that satan could've been more moral than god, e.g. the adam and eve story, but that is pointless, its trying to build a reasonable explanation from a pile of bullshit. I could just as easily propose that god, a trikster gos will bring some atheists to heaven, because they did good on their own volition, than christians that did good only by fear of a deity. But that would be just making stories, evidence is what tells the difference between bullshit and reality.

EDIT: Nvm, you already been told about promoting links

I Like That: "as our knowledge evolves, the more tiny their gods become."

---

(August 29, 2013 at 5:20 pm)Captain Colostomy Wrote: What undermines the whole (monotheistic) religious enterprise is the irrational usage of myth to justify the suppression of humanity. The god notion itself actually does the suppression...the devil came about to explain those peoples who refused god's yoke.

Go Team Satan! :p

and to provide an explanation for theodicy probably.

I've also read that Jews picked up the Satan idea during the inter-testimental period from Zoroastrianism.

Satan disproves Christianity by not being the devil in the Old Testament [the foundation from which Christianity is born and relies upon to be valid] but rather being an agent of Yahweh who is meant to test mortals on their faith in Yahweh.

He didn't become a rebellious demon thing until Christianity, when they realized they needed a new threat to get people to flock to their cult when it was becoming rapidly very obvious that the polytheistic Romans weren't being stricken down with horrible plagues and shit by the supposedly omnipotent Yahweh despite their endless blasphemies against Yahweh.

Look to the foundations when you wish to demolish something, for when they are weak or destroyed, the entire structure comes crumbling down.

(August 29, 2013 at 6:02 am)findingdoubt Wrote: It seems to me the whole premise of a very powerful Satan who can delude you into believing a lie and you won't know it undermines the entire religious enterprise.

The thing about being deceived by Satan is,
you don't know your deceived!

How does a fundamentalist Christian know that aren't deceived and should be Jews or Muslims, or Hindu's or whatever?

I've been thinking about blogging on this point.

It seems that Christian demonology undermines Christianity because even if they say the evidence looks good to them they can't disprove that Satan is just deceiving them.

Just as no one could really prove that Satan is not deceiving them when apologists make the claim that they are, Christians cannot disprove that they are deceived.

The witness in their spirit just might be the devil.

So since by their religious claims there is an equal chance that their religious claims are crap their religious claims are crap!

Matthew 24:24 "For false christs and false prophets will arise and preform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."

Matthew 12:22-32 these verses are about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit but, within these verses is the lesson of a house divide and the teaching is a house divided will not stand... well it's been here for 2000 years and going strong.

GC

(August 30, 2013 at 3:50 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Satan disproves Christianity by not being the devil in the Old Testament [the foundation from which Christianity is born and relies upon to be valid] but rather being an agent of Yahweh who is meant to test mortals on their faith in Yahweh.

He didn't become a rebellious demon thing until Christianity, when they realized they needed a new threat to get people to flock to their cult when it was becoming rapidly very obvious that the polytheistic Romans weren't being stricken down with horrible plagues and shit by the supposedly omnipotent Yahweh despite their endless blasphemies against Yahweh.

Look to the foundations when you wish to demolish something, for when they are weak or destroyed, the entire structure comes crumbling down.

Preach it! haha.