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RE: Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?
September 8, 2013 at 8:48 pm
(September 8, 2013 at 1:50 am)missluckie26 Wrote: GC we have lack of belief, I am POSITIVE you've been told this a million times. No one's responsible for their lack of belief, don't play.
You're responsible for your actions and non actions. Lack of belief want hold water at the judgement.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
RE: Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?
September 8, 2013 at 9:18 pm
(September 8, 2013 at 8:48 pm)Godschild Wrote:
(September 8, 2013 at 1:50 am)missluckie26 Wrote: GC we have lack of belief, I am POSITIVE you've been told this a million times. No one's responsible for their lack of belief, don't play.
You're responsible for your actions and non actions. Lack of belief want hold water at the judgement.
GC
I agree with your first sentence. I'm not even sure your second sentence is comprehensible.
RE: Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?
September 8, 2013 at 9:23 pm
Careful GC, your proselytising is showing.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
RE: Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?
September 8, 2013 at 9:43 pm (This post was last modified: September 8, 2013 at 9:49 pm by Godscreated.)
(September 8, 2013 at 5:26 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Hi nice guy why do you feel its justified for a majority of humans to go to hell so that you and your brethren can go to heaven and be 'rewarded'?
No one has to go to heaven in order for others to go to hell, no one has to go to hell in order for others to go to heaven. Scriptures do not teach this ever, it's only your deluded opinion, which in IMO shows how little you learned about scriptures when you supposedly where in church.
Quote:There are no winners without losers, after all.
You act like this is a game and it may be to you, but in the end you will see it's as real as it gets, everyone will be held accountable for their sin.
Quote: How can you justify an eternal punishment for a finite crime and why does it make sense to you that you were born into an inherited crime? that's like waking up and owing a mortgage on a house you don't even own!
No one has inherited sin, we inherit the potential to sin, we have a desire to sin before the Holy Spirit comes into our lives.
Sin is infinite if it's not forgiven, sin against an eternal God is eternal, this is a basic understanding in Christianity, how did you miss this when you were in church.
(September 8, 2013 at 8:54 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: Good thing the judgment isn't real. (And proving its existence by appealing to the Bible won't work either.)
You're mistake here is, I'm trying to prove anything to you, I state what I know, take it as you want.
(September 8, 2013 at 9:18 pm)Captain Colostomy Wrote:
(September 8, 2013 at 8:48 pm)Godschild Wrote: You're responsible for your actions and non actions. Lack of belief want hold water at the judgement.
GC
I agree with your first sentence. I'm not even sure your second sentence is comprehensible.
All I know to say is that it makes sense to all Christians, one's lack of belief will not be an excuse.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
RE: Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?
September 8, 2013 at 10:45 pm
(September 8, 2013 at 9:43 pm)Godschild Wrote:
(September 8, 2013 at 5:26 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Hi nice guy why do you feel its justified for a majority of humans to go to hell so that you and your brethren can go to heaven and be 'rewarded'?
No one has to go to heaven in order for others to go to hell, no one has to go to hell in order for others to go to heaven. Scriptures do not teach this ever, it's only your deluded opinion, which in IMO shows how little you learned about scriptures when you supposedly where in church.
Heyyyyy you're not the nice guy!
In any case, your response is not a defense in any way shape or form. There's a heaven, there's a hell. The bible says a MAJORITY of humans will go to hell. ETERNAL TORMENT. Just so why? So god can have his forevermore buddies by rewarding them for doing what he wants them to do.
You don't make sense to me, but maybe you don't make sense to you. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, why is this reasoning not applicable?
godschild Wrote:
missluckie26 Wrote:There are no winners without losers, after all.
You act like this is a game and it may be to you, but in the end you will see it's as real as it gets, everyone will be held accountable for their sin.
Out of all the people playing games in this match, it's you. You know you're in it to win it and take that narrow path to the pearly gates, so to speak. You live your life by this path. Me, I don't. I'm not playing games. I'm just trying to live. You're the one in an ATHEIST forum, telling me I'll be judged for my disbelief. Oh it's very much a game to you.
Do you fantasize about where in the hierarchy of the new Kingdom you will be placed? Or think about how many riches in heaven you've accumulated? For that matter, why do you feel special because you're one of gods children?
godschild Wrote:
missluckie26 Wrote:How can you justify an eternal punishment for a finite crime and why does it make sense to you that you were born into an inherited crime? that's like waking up and owing a mortgage on a house you don't even own!
No one has inherited sin, we inherit the potential to sin, we have a desire to sin before the Holy Spirit comes into our lives.
Sin is infinite if it's not forgiven, sin against an eternal God is eternal, this is a basic understanding in Christianity, how did you miss this when you were in church.
Now I know you're playing. That or you didn't read your own bible.
THEBIBLE Wrote:
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Hosea 13:16
The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords."
Genesis
3:22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
6:11, 12
"The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth and behold it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth."
5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.”
Deuteronomy
16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto
Psalm 14:2, 3
"The Lord has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one."
Job 15:14
"What is man, that he should be pure, or he who is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?"
Psalm 51:5 "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me."
Ephesians 2:2 says that all people who are not in Christ are "sons of disobedience." Ephesians 2:3 also establishes this, saying that we are all "by nature children of wrath." If we are all "by nature children of wrath," it can only be because we are all by nature sinners--for God does not direct His wrath towards those who are not guilty. God did not create the human race sinful, but upright. But we fell into sin and became sinful due to the sin of Adam.
Proverbs 22:5
"Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child."
Deuteronomy 20:13-20
And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword (even the unarmed ones)
"Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions" (Ecclesiastes 7:29).
Christian Johnathan Edwards Wrote:If all mankind, as soon as ever they are capable of reflecting, and knowing their own moral state, find themselves wicked, this proves that they are wicked by nature.
Death only comes upon those who have sinned. Since infants die, they therefore must be sinners. It could be objected that Christ was sinless, and yet He died. But He willingly gave up His life, and He did it to conquer the curse of death that we were under. In fact, God imputed to Christ our sins on the cross, and Christ died in punishment of those sins.
Ephesians 2:2 says that all people who are not in Christ are "sons of disobedience." Ephesians 2:3 also establishes this, saying that we are all "by nature children of wrath." If we are all "by nature children of wrath," it can only be because we are all by nature sinners--for God does not direct His wrath towards those who are not guilty. God did not create the human race sinful, but upright. But we fell into sin and became sinful due to the sin of Adam.
Genesis 8:21
"...the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth."
"The word translated youth, signifies the whole of the former part of the age of man, which commences from the beginning of life. The word in its derivation, has reference to the birth or beginning of existence...so that the word here translated youth, comprehends not only what we in English most commonly call the time of youth, but also childhood and infancy."
--Jonathan Edwards, The Great Christian Doctrine of Original Sin Defended in The Works of Jonathan Edwards Volume I, pp. 143-233.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
RE: Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?
September 8, 2013 at 11:19 pm (This post was last modified: September 8, 2013 at 11:24 pm by Max_Kolbe.)
(September 8, 2013 at 5:26 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Hi nice guy why do you feel its justified for a majority of humans to go to hell so that you and your brethren can go to heaven and be 'rewarded'? There are no winners without losers, after all. How can you justify an eternal punishment for a finite crime and why does it make sense to you that you were born into an inherited crime? that's like waking up and owing a mortgage on a house you don't even own!
I do not feel it is justified for a majority of humans to go to hell so that I and my brethren can go to heaven and be 'rewarded.'
I cannot justify an eternal punishment for a finite crime.
It does not make sense to me that I was born into an inherited crime.
(Yesterday 21:26)missluckie26 Wrote:
Hi nice guy why do you feel its justified for a majority of humans to go to hell so that you and your brethren can go to heaven and be 'rewarded'? There are no winners without losers, after all. How can you justify an eternal punishment for a finite crime and why does it make sense to you that you were born into an inherited crime? that's like waking up and owing a mortgage on a house you don't even own!
I do not feel it is justified for a majority of humans to go to hell so that I and my brethren can go to heaven and be 'rewarded.'
I cannot justify an eternal punishment for a finite crime.
It does not make sense to me that I was born into an inherited crime.
"The bible says a MAJORITY of humans will go to hell."
Where does the bible say that a majority of humans will go to hell?
RE: Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?
September 9, 2013 at 3:58 am
(September 8, 2013 at 9:43 pm)Godschild Wrote: You're mistake here is, I'm trying to prove anything to you, I state what I know, take it as you want.
You state what you believe. You don't know anything you can't demonstrate, and you sure as hell can't demonstrate any of this crap.
Quote:Where does the bible say that a majority of humans will go to hell?
It's a simple numbers game: the bible says that the way to heaven is through belief in Jesus, and that the unforgivable sin is not believing. The majority of the world is not christian, and therefore the majority of the world is going to hell.
Not to mention all those in the past that couldn't have known this stuff (and a more uncharitable part of me wants to remind us all of the thriving civilizations that existed even before god apparently created the world) and the ones who are yet to come, when this religion is just another footnote and collection of curious stories in the future... They'll know but won't believe. Hellbound.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
RE: Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?
September 9, 2013 at 7:59 am (This post was last modified: September 9, 2013 at 8:01 am by Tonus.)
Matthew 7:13 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Jesus claims that "many" will be destroyed and "few" will be saved.
(September 8, 2013 at 12:37 am)Godschild Wrote: I wasn't trying to brush you off, I was trying to let you know that you are responsible for your belief, if someone is serious about finding the truth of God I'm always willing to help. But when one gets brushed off as much as the Christians do here, we can become less caring because of the experience. Sorry that I came off as brushing you off.
No worries, I wasn't offended by it. I am aware that you guys get a lot of abuse here and as I have stated in the past, I have no issue if you decide to dish it out as well.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."