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(September 29, 2013 at 8:05 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: The punishment for sin is death.
So if I go through life without sinning, I'd be immortal?
I know that the game is configured in such a way as to make that task nearly impossible, and that's its own little slice of problematic, but let's all play the hypothetical game for a bit, yeah?
Or would I, sinless until the last, die just the same as anyone else?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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(September 29, 2013 at 8:05 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: The punishment for sin is death.
But after death comes the judgment of where that person.
If saved then that person goes to heaven to be with Jesus Christ.
You are saying that we are punished for sin, then judged for our sins, then punished or rewarded for our sin. If the wages of sin is death, then that is paid upon death. Any additional reward or punishment is arbitrary. If acceptance of Christ's sacrifice cleanses a person of sin, then they need not die at all and are unfairly punished with death, in which case the sacrifice of Jesus is superfluous-- god would owe them something anyway. It still doesn't make sense.
Quote:As to the crucifixion, it is hardly a small penalty.
It is, to a being who has existed for infinite time both before and after. Thirty three years? Three days? Six hours? None of those matter to a being who has always existed. Think of the biggest number you can. Say a trillion trillion trillion years. God is older than that, and will exist for longer than that going forward. The amount of time he suffered compared to the amount of time he has been alive is so short it may as well not even have happened.
Suffering the most hideous torture for a few hours isn't pleasant, but knowing that you're just a few hours from returning to your position as the most powerful being in all of existence probably took just a bit of the edge off of it. Especially knowing that you could return the treatment to your tormentors an infinity-fold. Good thing Yahweh isn't a vengeful god!
That works even better and saves me having to mop up the mess.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
(September 29, 2013 at 8:05 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: The punishment for sin is death.
So if I go through life without sinning, I'd be immortal?
I know that the game is configured in such a way as to make that task nearly impossible, and that's its own little slice of problematic, but let's all play the hypothetical game for a bit, yeah?
Or would I, sinless until the last, die just the same as anyone else?
September 29, 2013 at 11:18 am (This post was last modified: September 29, 2013 at 12:16 pm by Cyberman.)
(September 29, 2013 at 11:03 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Have you sinned?
Of course.
So do not worry about the hypothetical.
But that's the shell game, isn't it? Everyone is broken according to the standards of the dogma in question, either through actions and thoughts in life or simply by virtue of being born. "Created sick and ordered to be well", as the immortal Hitch had it. Along comes the salesman to sell you the concept of redemption and if you sign up now you get the gift of eternal life absolutely free!*
*(Disclaimer: "absolutely free" is not a guarantee. Costs to your opinions of others will be excessive and costs to other areas of your life, especially critical thinking skills, will be considerably more. Your mileage will vary. The chances of your eternal redemption can go down as well as up.)
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
September 29, 2013 at 12:14 pm (This post was last modified: September 29, 2013 at 12:14 pm by catfish.)
(September 29, 2013 at 8:33 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Only God could do it.
Do what, atone for sin? Read Isaiah 6:7.
(September 29, 2013 at 8:33 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: But Jesus Christ is not only fully God, but fully man.
But that is still human sacrifice and that was a pagan tradition. In essence, Mary and everyone who accepts this sacrifice is guilty of "sending their children through the fire".
(September 29, 2013 at 8:33 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Still never sinned for 33 years.
Then why would he answer thusly?
Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19?
(September 29, 2013 at 8:33 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Went through a very tough death.
Yes, but I'd wager it was "because" of 'our' sins and not "for" them.
(September 29, 2013 at 8:33 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Bore the penalty and guilt of all sins.
Which would totally nullify the OT verses: Deuteronomy 24:16 and 2 Kings 14:6 and contradict Yeshua's words here:
Mark 12:33
To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”.
(September 29, 2013 at 8:33 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: None of it is His punishment, but our punishment.
Deuteronomy 24:16 and 2 Kings 14:6
(September 29, 2013 at 11:23 am)Brakeman Wrote: Your whole god view is HYPOTHETICAL, as it is not real, and completely imagined without any evidence.
(September 29, 2013 at 7:43 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: God is holy and must punish sin.
The Bible says that:
"the wages of sin is death" (Romans 3:23)
After death, comes judgment before God.
The sacrifice of blood represents that death penalty.
So the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is to pay for our sins, so those that trust Him as Saviour have all their sins, paid for and forgiven.
Jesus is a substitue to take our place. He pays fro our sins and gives everlasting life to those that believe.
Mr. Lambert is perfectly normal except he can't bear hearing the word "mattress".
"Apart from that, he's really all right" (Monte Python Video 1:44)
After hearing the word "mattress", Mr. Lambert must put a bag over his head.
The bag over he head represents ...something to Mr. Lambert I'm sure.
So naturally Mr. Veret must get into the tea chest and sing. So that Mr. Lambert may remove the bag over his head.
Mr. Veret singing in the tea chest is the substitute for the bag over Mr. Lambert's head, allowing Mr. Lambert to remove the bag.
But just don't say "mattress" to Mr. Lambert.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
