(December 7, 2013 at 4:36 pm)Nineteen Wrote: Read Quran over and over again , take notes of the parts which you dont understand or you find strange . Reserach about the meanings of original words , compare the verse with other verses , dont be hasty .

This is the way if you want to understand Quran .

Can you truly not see that this is an astonishingly ineffective way for a god to communicate its will/desires/rules/etc. with humans?
And, as such, it is astonishingly simple to realize that the book was very, very likely man-made and man-written. All words in it were by man, for man... or rather, by con-man, for gullible/indoctrinated man.

How does your mind deal with this detail?
Did your parents indoctrinate you?
Have you ever thought that, were you born in Europe or the americas, you'd probably be indoctrinated as a christian and be here supporting that "world-view", instead of the muslim one?
Have you ever thought that you may have been deceived, as a child, and your adult brain is still attached to that deception?
Have you ever considered the possibility that there are people who have the ability to make others believe whatever they want? And it works with most other people?!
Do you know how your brain works? Will you allow yourself to be kept kept in a state of childhood-ingrained belief, knowing full well that that particular belief was a fluke of your geographical birth and fully dependent on the people who raised you and taught all you know?

People... that's where it all leads to... people.
People teach a fairy tale as if it was true... others accept it... and a myth is born. Let it grow and it becomes a religion.
Religions... made by people, for people.

The qur'an, the bible, the vedas, the Egyptian book of the dead... all made by people... to keep other people in line... all claiming to have a super-natural origin... guess which one actually is... none!

(December 7, 2013 at 4:36 pm)Nineteen Wrote:

(December 7, 2013 at 2:45 pm)paulpablo Wrote: The wife beating verse, I've heard muslims say beat doesn't mean beat it means to verbally be aggressive with an idea.

The translations of the quran mostly say god created the earth in 6 days but others say it means 6 periods of time.

as for interpretations of what it says in the quran you only need to look at the varying behavior of muslims to see that there is a lot of discrepancy between interpretations. If I thought the quran was the word of god I can honestly say I'd go out killing people because of what I've read in the quran about fighting, and getting revenge attacks on people who attack muslims.

Read Quran over and over again , take notes of the parts which you dont understand or you find strange . Reserach about the meanings of original words , compare the verse with other verses , dont be hasty .

This is the way if you want to understand Quran .

There are Muslims scholars who do this and still don't come up with the same answers as other Muslim scholars.

The quran commands muslims to fight those who fight them. British and American soldiers are fighting muslims yet so many muslims don't fight back, some do and some don't.

This is just one example of a clear discrepancy in the behavior of active muslims.

(December 8, 2013 at 5:37 am)paulpablo Wrote: There are Muslims scholars who do this and still don't come up with the same answers as other Muslim scholars.

The quran commands muslims to fight those who fight them. British and American soldiers are fighting muslims yet so many muslims don't fight back, some do and some don't.

This is just one example of a clear discrepancy in the behavior of active muslims.

Muslim scholars are not smarter than you . You can decide for yourself . For example "beating women" verse takes issue the "inhospitable women to their husbands" . So probably she(women) have some problems agains him(husbands) . Verse says firstly ; warn her , secondly ; seperate your beds and dont sleep together , thirdly ;"beat her" or "leave her for a while" . Which one is logical ?

I'm not interested with political events . Iraqis are poor people , Afghans the same . They are already suffering because of their government . This is not war . This is just killing unarmed innocent poor people with heavy guns .

(December 8, 2013 at 6:43 am)Nineteen Wrote:

(December 8, 2013 at 5:37 am)paulpablo Wrote: There are Muslims scholars who do this and still don't come up with the same answers as other Muslim scholars.

The quran commands muslims to fight those who fight them. British and American soldiers are fighting muslims yet so many muslims don't fight back, some do and some don't.

This is just one example of a clear discrepancy in the behavior of active muslims.

Muslim scholars are not smarter than you . You can decide for yourself . For example "beating women" verse takes issue the "inhospitable women to their husbands" . So probably she(women) have some problems agains him(husbands) . Verse says firstly ; warn her , secondly ; seperate your beds and dont sleep together , thirdly ;"beat her" or "leave her for a while" . Which one is logical ?

They may not be smarter than me but a lot of them know more arabic than I do.
Yet I have seen youtube videos of people claiming to have spoke to the best Islamic scholars in egypt and they have been told the word used in the quran which people translate for beat actually means say words aggressively, yet many many other people translate the word to mean beat in a physical sense, I'm not qualified in ancient arabic enough to even enter the argument.

Those 'Muslims' that are fighting british and US soldiers are Al Qaeda and Taliban who do suicide bombings against Muslims themselves including women and children. The US is doing good by fighting against these individuals though the innocent civilians killed in drone strokes is not good.

So killing one group is okay but not another? Isn't that moral relativism?

(December 7, 2013 at 12:50 pm)Nineteen Wrote:

(December 7, 2013 at 12:47 pm)Chas Wrote: You do realize that the Koran was written down decades after the alleged events, pieced together from many people's memories.

Quran was written at the same time with arriving by Allah .

But you can say these for Bible , its written after years of Jesus and they have 4 different books and different fairy tales .

No.
"The compilation of the written Qur'an (as opposed to the recited Qur'an) spanned several decades and forms an important part of early Islamic history. Muslim accounts say it began in the year 610 when Gabriel (Arabic: جبريل, Jibrīl or جبرائيل, Jibrāʾīl) appeared to Muhammad in the cave Hira near Mecca, reciting to him the first verses of the Sura Iqra (al-`Alaq), thus beginning the revelation of the Qur'an. Throughout his life, Muhammad continued to have revelations until before his death in 632.[1] Muslim and non-Muslim scholars alike disagree on whether Muhammad compiled the Qur'an during his lifetime or if this task began with the first caliph Abu Bakr as-Siddiq (632-634). Once the Qur'an was compiled, due to the unanimity of the sources, Muslims agree that the Qur'an we see today was canonized by Uthman ibn Affan (653-656). Upon the canonization of the Qur'an, Uthman ordered the burning of all personal copies of the Qur'an."

(December 8, 2013 at 1:57 pm)Sleepy Wrote: Those 'Muslims' that are fighting british and US soldiers are Al Qaeda and Taliban who do suicide bombings against Muslims themselves including women and children. The US is doing good by fighting against these individuals though the innocent civilians killed in drone strokes is not good.

Not all Muslims who are fighting US and british soldiers are killing women and children.

The killing of private Lee Rigby in london is an example of that.

(December 8, 2013 at 2:26 pm)Chas Wrote: No.
"The compilation of the written Qur'an (as opposed to the recited Qur'an) spanned several decades and forms an important part of early Islamic history. Muslim accounts say it began in the year 610 when Gabriel (Arabic: جبريل, Jibrīl or جبرائيل, Jibrāʾīl) appeared to Muhammad in the cave Hira near Mecca, reciting to him the first verses of the Sura Iqra (al-`Alaq), thus beginning the revelation of the Qur'an. Throughout his life, Muhammad continued to have revelations until before his death in 632.[1] Muslim and non-Muslim scholars alike disagree on whether Muhammad compiled the Qur'an during his lifetime or if this task began with the first caliph Abu Bakr as-Siddiq (632-634). Once the Qur'an was compiled, due to the unanimity of the sources, Muslims agree that the Qur'an we see today was canonized by Uthman ibn Affan (653-656). Upon the canonization of the Qur'an, Uthman ordered the burning of all personal copies of the Qur'an."

Please read that a few times again . Continue to read till you understand .

(December 8, 2013 at 3:18 pm)Nineteen Wrote:

(December 8, 2013 at 2:26 pm)Chas Wrote: No.
"The compilation of the written Qur'an (as opposed to the recited Qur'an) spanned several decades and forms an important part of early Islamic history. Muslim accounts say it began in the year 610 when Gabriel (Arabic: جبريل, Jibrīl or جبرائيل, Jibrāʾīl) appeared to Muhammad in the cave Hira near Mecca, reciting to him the first verses of the Sura Iqra (al-`Alaq), thus beginning the revelation of the Qur'an. Throughout his life, Muhammad continued to have revelations until before his death in 632.[1] Muslim and non-Muslim scholars alike disagree on whether Muhammad compiled the Qur'an during his lifetime or if this task began with the first caliph Abu Bakr as-Siddiq (632-634). Once the Qur'an was compiled, due to the unanimity of the sources, Muslims agree that the Qur'an we see today was canonized by Uthman ibn Affan (653-656). Upon the canonization of the Qur'an, Uthman ordered the burning of all personal copies of the Qur'an."

Please read that a few times again . Continue to read till you understand .

I did. Note the passage of decades before it was written down. Note that there were multiple versions that had to be selected from.