(March 31, 2014 at 10:36 am)Alex K Wrote: I think the technical term is "die of Him".

Nice. And speaking of "why do they think this is convincing..."

Christians often use the alleged martyrdom of early Christians as proof that the myths must be true or they wouldn't have done it. I am more than a little skeptical of how much the folklore of early Christian suffering represents real history but let that go.

I usually bring of David Koresh, The Heaven's Gate (or Hale Bopp) cult and Jim Jones as modern examples of people dying for absurd religions, including the founders who should have known their stuff was bs. And this is in the modern age, a supposedly skeptical time when fact checking is just a Google search away. 2000 years ago, the world was awash in superstition and the citizens of that time were mostly illiterate.

Usually, I get blank looks in response. They don't seem to understand why there's any comparison. These other examples are just crazy cultists but the early Christians knew The Truth. The special pleading escapes them.

Even the more savvy apologists will try to draw some kind of artificial distinction. "These cultists didn't know they were dying for lies." But the martyrs of these cults included the leaders, who should have known. "But these cult leaders were crazy." And it's impossible that Paul or the other apostles were crazy?

Putting aside that this argument tries to use folklore to prove mythology, the special pleading is extra thick.

(March 31, 2014 at 10:48 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(March 31, 2014 at 10:36 am)Alex K Wrote: I think the technical term is "die of Him".

Nice. And speaking of "why do they think this is convincing..."

Christians often use the alleged martyrdom of early Christians as proof that the myths must be true or they wouldn't have done it. I am more than a little skeptical of how much the folklore of early Christian suffering represents real history but let that go.

There is a nice episode or two of the "Reasonable Doubts" podcast explaining why all the alleged early christian martyrdom is not quite what it's usually made out to be.

(March 30, 2014 at 9:38 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Where you there at the Big Bang?

"Every single time." --Ron Jeremy

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(March 31, 2014 at 8:53 am)Revelation777 Wrote: The impact of Jesus' life is much greater than that. People all over the world die for Him.

If the only martyrs were Christian martyrs, there might be something to that. If only people who prayed to Yahweh claimed that their prayers were answered, there might be something to that. If the only claims of supernatural experiences were made by Christians, there might be something to that.

People all over the world report contact with aliens. Children all over the world find money under their pillows when they lose a tooth. And so on. I'm betting that you filter most of these claims through a very skeptical filter, which you conspicuously remove when it comes time to analyze biblical claims.

(March 31, 2014 at 8:58 am)Revelation777 Wrote:

(March 30, 2014 at 10:58 pm)Beccs Wrote: Like Harry Potter.

You don't have to stand before Harry Potter some day.

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(March 30, 2014 at 9:54 pm)Beccs Wrote: You mean the fact of evolution? The basis of modern biology and medicine? The same that has allowed us to eradicate smallpox which had previously killed hundreds of millions of people, and close to eradicating polio?

THAT evolution?

Not that evolution..the evolution that claims one species over millions of years evolved into another.

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(March 30, 2014 at 11:16 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Apparently, aside form bible verses, that's all he's got.

Whether we accept it or not, we all will be judged by the rejection or acceptance of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

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(March 31, 2014 at 4:02 am)Alex K Wrote: You know, since we are today seeing light coming directly to us from the early cooling phase of the universe when atoms were formed via recombination, for all intents and purposes that counts as being there. What else does seeing something first hand mean, after all?
So, yes, I was there.

God created it all. Yes, there was probably a lot of light and energy emitted at the time.

Species don't evolve into other species. You're making that same stupid mistake again and again where you look at the fossil record and say "at this point, humans are 100% human and no longer apes." Read a book about evolution (no creation "scientists", now) and you will see that humans (hominoidea) are part of the taxonomic ape species.

The only evidence that God created the universe: The Holy Bible, which is FULL of contradictions. If there were one single God(s) in the universe, he/she/it/they would write the holy book and give it to us. Instead, we have the Mahabharata, the Holy Bible, The Koran, Ku Klux Klan, Spanish Inquisition, Al Qaeda, Protestants and Catholics murdering each other in Northern Ireland, and Slobodan Milosevic and his Christian warriors' genocide against Muslims.

Quote:Revelation777 Wrote:
Where you there at the Big Bang?

Were you there when your 'god' poofed the universe into existence...out of nothing?

(March 31, 2014 at 10:36 am)Alex K Wrote:

(March 31, 2014 at 9:37 am)pocaracas Wrote: What do I mean by "big bang"? The initial point in space-time where-when the Universe first expanded...

Well that clears it up then. There is probably no such thing, nor does current cosmology postulate it.

Oh, really?

wiki Wrote:The Big Bang theory is the prevailing cosmological model for the early development of the universe.[1] According to the theory, the Big Bang occurred approximately 13.798 ± 0.037 billion years ago,[2][3][4][5][6] which is thus considered the age of the universe.[7][8][9][10] At this time, the universe was in an extremely hot and dense state and began expanding rapidly. After the initial expansion, the universe cooled sufficiently to allow energy to be converted into various subatomic particles, including protons, neutrons, and electrons.

(March 31, 2014 at 8:58 am)Revelation777 Wrote:

(March 31, 2014 at 4:02 am)Alex K Wrote: You know, since we are today seeing light coming directly to us from the early cooling phase of the universe when atoms were formed via recombination, for all intents and purposes that counts as being there. What else does seeing something first hand mean, after all?
So, yes, I was there.

God created it all. Yes, there was probably a lot of light and energy emitted at the time.

Assertion.

Prove your claim, or GTFO. And if that's all you've got regarding your knowledge of the BB, then tell any of us why we should listen to you. All you've got to offer is bollocks and unsubstantiated assertions. I'm sure your god, whoever or whatever that is, is really proud of you.

Revelation777, if you stand before Jesus and he asks you why you furthered the cause of anti-theism by making Christians out to be such gullible idiots, what will you say?

I know what I'd say.

He was the most influential human being in History and Contemporary Historians of the time wrote about him. To deny his existence would be more difficult Historically than to deny the existence of Alexander the Great.