(April 6, 2014 at 11:46 am)whateverist Wrote: Looks like pre-existing conditions all the way down to me.

Yes, but why do those pre-existing conditions pre-exist?

(April 6, 2014 at 11:46 am)whateverist Wrote: The question is meaningless, or at least a semantic one, because it all hinges on what we mean by "nothing". First air turned out not to be nothing, then empty space itself turns out not to be nothing and even if there was a time when there was a god but neither space nor matter .. that too would not be nothing. If we're to worry about the transition from nothing to something, god doesn't get a pass. Then again, why do we think there would ever have been a true nothing? What leads anyone to suppose that?

Personally I don't accept that there was ever a true nothing. Before the earliest phenomenon we could ever come to theorize, there would always have been the preconditions necessary to give rise to it. Looks like pre-existing conditions all the way down to me.

"You're very clever, young man, very clever, but it's tortoises all the way down!"

(April 6, 2014 at 10:46 am)LostLocke Wrote:

(April 5, 2014 at 8:34 am)alpha male Wrote: My point on this line is that it's incorrect at best or sometimes disingenuous to claim that science has shown that something can come from nothing.

So what your saying is that the universe, even if it was created by a god, must have come from something?

No, I'm not saying that, and IMO it's a non sequitur from what you quoted.

(April 7, 2014 at 9:22 am)alpha male Wrote:

(April 6, 2014 at 10:46 am)LostLocke Wrote: So what your saying is that the universe, even if it was created by a god, must have come from something?

No, I'm not saying that, and IMO it's a non sequitur from what you quoted.

So, when this god created the universe, he created it from nothing?

(April 7, 2014 at 9:22 am)alpha male Wrote:

(April 6, 2014 at 10:46 am)LostLocke Wrote: So what your saying is that the universe, even if it was created by a god, must have come from something?

No, I'm not saying that, and IMO it's a non sequitur from what you quoted.

It's only a "non sequitur" from what you quoted because he doesn't like the conclusion.

He didn't get the chance to tack a special pleading clause on the end of <Something cannot come from nothing> in the form of <Unless God did it>

Since theists are so fond of stating that woman was created either from dirt or the rib of man, depending upon which genesis story you want to believe over the other, it strikes me as odd that theists are not claiming their godboy created the universe from himself.

(April 7, 2014 at 11:03 am)Kitanetos Wrote: Since theists are so fond of stating that woman was created either from dirt or the rib of man, depending upon which genesis story you want to believe over the other, it strikes me as odd that theists are not claiming their godboy created the universe from himself.

Some do... some claim that everything is god and god is everything... or something like that...

We need to define something and nothing and then start examining nothing.

(April 7, 2014 at 11:31 am)tor Wrote: We need to define something and nothing and then start examining nothing.

I'm there already buddy

(April 7, 2014 at 11:39 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(April 7, 2014 at 11:31 am)tor Wrote: We need to define something and nothing and then start examining nothing.

I'm there already buddy

And you fail.