(April 10, 2014 at 6:52 am)alpha male Wrote:

(April 9, 2014 at 11:53 am)pocaracas Wrote: The big bang has been dated to about 13.7 billion years ago.

What was there before? Was there anything before? Does a "before" make sense?
- To all, "I don't know" is the most honest response.

I don't know is the most honest answer to many questions for which we speculate about the possibilities anyway.

Indeed.

And yet, many theists fail to realize that their speculations are just that.

(April 10, 2014 at 6:52 am)alpha male Wrote:

Quote:The often claimed age of the Universe reports to the length of time since the big bang... not necessarily the actual age of the Universe.

To my understanding it's thought that the universe existed as a singularity before the big bang. If the singularity had existed eternally, I would expect it to continue to exist as a singularity eternally. Yet, we had a big bang.

Some have speculated on an oscillating universe, but models of such don't work with certain observations.

What if the singularity didn't exist eternally?
What if there was an oscillating universe that, on the last iteration lost something extra and is now non-oscillating?

(April 10, 2014 at 7:01 am)pocaracas Wrote: What if the singularity didn't exist eternally?
What if there was an oscillating universe that, on the last iteration lost something extra and is now non-oscillating?

Again, the known laws of nature combined with observation do not point to an oscillating universe. You're engaging in supernatural speculation.

(April 10, 2014 at 11:09 am)alpha male Wrote:

(April 10, 2014 at 7:01 am)pocaracas Wrote: What if the singularity didn't exist eternally?
What if there was an oscillating universe that, on the last iteration lost something extra and is now non-oscillating?

Again, the known laws of nature combined with observation do not point to an oscillating universe. You're engaging in supernatural speculation.

I know. I am fully aware of that.
I'm simply exercising my imagination.
I make no claim of truth for any of these hypothetical scenarios.
Can you say the same for the "god hypothesis"made by believers?

(April 10, 2014 at 6:52 am)alpha male Wrote: If the singularity had existed eternally, I would expect it to continue to exist as a singularity eternally. Yet, we had a big bang.

If god existed eternally prior to creating the universe, then I would expect him to continue to exist eternally without creating a universe.

I have a suspicious feeling your response will involve god being 'outside' time, which can apply to the singularity also, so keep that in mind before you state that.

(April 10, 2014 at 6:52 am)alpha male Wrote:

(April 9, 2014 at 11:53 am)pocaracas Wrote: The big bang has been dated to about 13.7 billion years ago.

What was there before? Was there anything before? Does a "before" make sense?
- To all, "I don't know" is the most honest response.

I don't know is the most honest answer to many questions for which we speculate about the possibilities anyway.

I had to answer 'yes' to the OP poll.

In fact, it was I who created this universe from nothing.
About 05:30 this morning.
Experientially prior to this there was a timeless period(sic) in which nothing happened after(sic) I destroyed yesterday's universe at ~23:30.
I am Shiva and Brahma. During the day, I'm Vishnu(sic).
Mock away unbelievers...I don't hear the opinions of non-player characters.

I am continually amazed that theists will claim to know where my immortal soul will spend eternity when they can't tell me where it went last night.

(April 10, 2014 at 11:27 am)LostLocke Wrote: If god existed eternally prior to creating the universe, then I would expect him to continue to exist eternally without creating a universe.

I have a suspicious feeling your response will involve god being 'outside' time, which can apply to the singularity also, so keep that in mind before you state that.

No, my response is that it's reasonable to have the expectation of continuity regarding an inanimate object, but not reasonable regarding a conscious agent.

(April 10, 2014 at 2:06 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(April 10, 2014 at 11:27 am)LostLocke Wrote: If god existed eternally prior to creating the universe, then I would expect him to continue to exist eternally without creating a universe.

I have a suspicious feeling your response will involve god being 'outside' time, which can apply to the singularity also, so keep that in mind before you state that.

No, my response is that it's reasonable to have the expectation of continuity regarding an inanimate object, but not reasonable regarding a conscious agent.

Which coincidentally can do anything it likes using magic.

(April 10, 2014 at 2:06 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(April 10, 2014 at 11:27 am)LostLocke Wrote: If god existed eternally prior to creating the universe, then I would expect him to continue to exist eternally without creating a universe.

I have a suspicious feeling your response will involve god being 'outside' time, which can apply to the singularity also, so keep that in mind before you state that.

No, my response is that it's reasonable to have the expectation of continuity regarding an inanimate object, but not reasonable regarding a conscious agent.

That you know of, is there any conscious agent whose consciousness doesn't rely on an inanimate object... or rather, on many such objects?

(April 10, 2014 at 5:44 pm)pocaracas Wrote: That you know of, is there any conscious agent whose consciousness doesn't rely on an inanimate object... or rather, on many such objects?

Let's see...we've been comparing god and a singularity...whadda you think?