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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 8:17 am
(May 30, 2014 at 7:33 pm)alpha male Wrote: Within humans, I already explained - individual DNA can be used as an indicator of personhood.
Perhaps an indicator, but not a very significant one for determining personhood:
- There were persons prior to our discovery of DNA. DNA surely existed, but knowledge of it was not necessary for discerning personhood.
- Babies born with hydranencephaly have human DNA, but I would struggle granting them the status of personhood.
DNA is also not required for differentiating us from other animals. In fact, it's not difficult for me to argue that DNA did the exact opposite;it showed us how similar we are to other species.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 9:21 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2014 at 9:22 am by John V.)
(May 31, 2014 at 8:00 am)LostLocke Wrote: (May 30, 2014 at 7:33 pm)alpha male Wrote: Within humans, I already explained - individual DNA can be used as an indicator of personhood. If the formation of DNA is the indicator that an abortion should not be performed because it is now a "person", then you are also against animal abortions too, right? What part of "within humans" didn't you understand?
(May 31, 2014 at 8:17 am)Cato Wrote: Perhaps an indicator, but not a very significant one for determining personhood: The significance of factors is a matter of opinion.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 9:31 am
(May 31, 2014 at 9:21 am)alpha male Wrote: (May 31, 2014 at 8:00 am)LostLocke Wrote: If the formation of DNA is the indicator that an abortion should not be performed because it is now a "person", then you are also against animal abortions too, right? What part of "within humans" didn't you understand? Animals also have unique DNA at conception. Why are they not also subject to the same standards?
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 9:32 am
(May 31, 2014 at 9:21 am)alpha male Wrote: (May 31, 2014 at 8:00 am)LostLocke Wrote: If the formation of DNA is the indicator that an abortion should not be performed because it is now a "person", then you are also against animal abortions too, right? What part of "within humans" didn't you understand?
(May 31, 2014 at 8:17 am)Cato Wrote: Perhaps an indicator, but not a very significant one for determining personhood: The significance of factors is a matter of opinion.
A fertilized egg is one cell. It has the full complement of DNA.
Every cell in your body (except gametes and red blood cells) has that same DNA.
Is every cell in your body a person?
You know that a human could be created by cloning any of those cells.
Your definition of personhood has some problems.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 9:42 am
(May 31, 2014 at 9:21 am)alpha male Wrote: The significance of factors is a matter of opinion. Perhaps, but what is most important is that I demonstrated that DNA is not required for determination of personhood. Boogers have DNA, but nobody will argue that boogers are persons.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 9:46 am
Sorry Losty, not in the mood for this...
Here. Grab a beer mate!
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 9:48 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2014 at 9:54 am by John V.)
(May 31, 2014 at 9:31 am)LostLocke Wrote: Animals also have unique DNA at conception. Why are they not also subject to the same standards? Already answered. Read the thread.
(May 31, 2014 at 9:32 am)Chas Wrote: Your definition of personhood has some problems. Of course it does. All definitions of personhood have problems. That's why it gets discussed and people end up with different opinions.
(May 31, 2014 at 9:42 am)Cato Wrote: Perhaps, but what is most important is that I demonstrated that DNA is not required for determination of personhood. As I didn't claim that DNA is required for determination of personhood, no, your point is not terribly important.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 10:04 am
(May 31, 2014 at 9:48 am)alpha male Wrote: As I didn't claim that DNA is required for determination of personhood, no, your point is not terribly important.
Who said you made that claim? You claimed that individual DNA was an indicator of personhood. I demonstrated that it isn't. You then fabricate this required condition to your own argument in an attempt to make my contribution irrelevant.
This is the adult version of taking your ball and going home.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 10:11 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2014 at 10:12 am by John V.)
(May 31, 2014 at 10:04 am)Cato Wrote: Who said you made that claim? You claimed that individual DNA was an indicator of personhood. I demonstrated that it isn't. No, you demonstrated that it is not required to define personhood. You in no way demonstrated that DNA cannot be used as an indicator of personhood.
Quote:You then fabricate this required condition to your own argument in an attempt to make my contribution irrelevant.
This is the adult version of taking your ball and going home.
I didn't fabricate anything. You brought it in: "Perhaps, but what is most important is that I demonstrated that DNA is not required for determination of personhood."
If such requirement is now irrelevant (although a few minutes ago it was the most important point), then restate your point.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 10:14 am
(May 31, 2014 at 9:46 am)Jason_ab Wrote: Sorry Losty, not in the mood for this...
Here. Grab a beer mate!
Lol. Some of your post was a horrific facepalm. But you got it right in that last sentence :p
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