(June 4, 2014 at 12:40 pm)Chad32 Wrote:

(June 4, 2014 at 12:36 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: 2 Peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Yeah, wasn't Peter a christian? I don't give as much credit to them in regards to jewish traditions as the jews. Why would a day to him be a thousand years?

I don't even understand how Eve was supposed to know what death was, anyway? What was the reference point?

Peter was actually Jewish and kept the traditions of the Jews it wasn't until Paul that Christianity moved away from keeping the Law. And to answer your question, time does not exist for God since he is an eternal being, but he counts 1000 of our years as being 1 day.

Kinda like how 1 human year = 7 dog years

(June 4, 2014 at 12:50 pm)Chad32 Wrote: How would they gain understanding of good end evil?

As noted, their were two ways: by doing good, or by doing evil. Satan only mentioned doing evil. That's the deception, and you're correct that it's not obvious. That explains why Eve said she was deceived.

Quote:Were we reading the same story? He specifically said this is the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and I don't want you eating of it.

Correct. he didn't say that he didn't want them to obtain such knowledge. He wanted them to obtain it the correct way - by resiting temptation and not eating.

Quote:Then after they obtained it, he kicked them out.

Yes, as they obtained the knowledge the wrong way, by doing evil.

Quote:Where is there indication that he wants people to be enlightened, as opposed to completely obedient to his every whim?

It's indicated by the fact that he put the tree in the garden and allowed Satan into the garden. He could have excluded both of those. A&E would presumably have remained naive. But, as God is righteous, he wanted righteous beings for fellowship. You can't become righteous if you're never faced with a moral choice, i.e. the ability to do right.

Quote:When has Yahweh ever wanted his humans to be independent beings, and not just worshipful sheep?

In the garden, apparently, else as noted he wouldn't have put in the tree and Satan.

That doesn't make any sense.

(June 4, 2014 at 1:07 pm)Chad32 Wrote: That doesn't make any sense.

I actually think he has a decent point. Only thing is...It's not actually in the bible...

The "God wanted them to learn good and evil by doing good" just isn't there. As good a point as it may or may not be, it's made up to support what is otherwise a silly, obviously flawed story.

Besides, let's say neither Adam nor Eve ate the fruit. One of their children would have, or their children's children, or children's children's children..., EVENTUALLY would've eaten the fruit. The whole system was destined to fail.

(June 4, 2014 at 1:20 pm)ThePinsir Wrote: I actually think he has a decent point. Only thing is...It's not actually in the bible...

Proverbs 25
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter,
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

(June 4, 2014 at 1:24 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(June 4, 2014 at 1:20 pm)ThePinsir Wrote: I actually think he has a decent point. Only thing is...It's not actually in the bible...

Proverbs 25
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter,
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

And how do you know the garden story was a concealed matter?

That's not to mention that the verse suggests that god gets a kick out of tricking people.

BESIDES, James 1:13 states clear as day that god doesn't tempt people. Is "tempt" the same as "test"? If so...it looks like another contradiction lol

(June 4, 2014 at 1:39 pm)ThePinsir Wrote: [quote='alpha male' pid='681375' dateline='1401902645']
And how do you know the garden story was concealed?

I don't know for sure, but my reasoning seems sound.

Quote:That's not to mention that the verse suggests that god gets a kick out of tricking people.

BESIDES, James 1:13 states clear as day that god doesn't tempt people. Is "tempt" the same as "test"? If so...it looks like another contradiction lol

Er, last time I read the passage it was Satan doing the tempting.

(June 4, 2014 at 11:46 am)Chad32 Wrote: I don't know why they hid themselves, or had a problem with being naked. If it was wrong to be naked, why were they allowed to be unclothed in the first place? It makes no sense, except for a society that was raised to believe nakedness is wrong.

That whole scene could be see through different eyes. He gets these clueless "children" naked and doesn't tell them. Then he goes off to hide. But his super-ultra-always-on video camera is on record. Behind the scenes he whips out his big cock and starts beating off to a naked Adam and Eve. God is a pervert! That or it doesn't make sense.

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(June 4, 2014 at 12:36 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: 2 Peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Thought this may come up. I don't recall this being in the old testament. So that could've been a scripture added to address the nonsense in the old testament. You gotta be careful with the new testament. It had the benefit of the old testament being available. That's why prophecy fulfilled in the new testament is a bit dodgy.

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HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!! I just thought of something. Maybe god didn't want them to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil so he could do whatever he wants, even if it is evil. No one would know! No one would read the old testament and think that these are the tales of a genocidal maniac. No accountability. Pretty cool plan if you think about it.

(June 4, 2014 at 1:24 pm)alpha male Wrote: Proverbs 25
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter,
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

That's your justification?

I'm always so impressed when god sends a message that determines the fate of my eternal soul in such an ambiguous, convoluted manner.

(June 4, 2014 at 11:04 am)alpha male Wrote: John 8
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

That doesn't lead me to believe the devil is bad. It leaves me to believe that some guy said the devil is bad. How was he a murderer from the beginning? He was an angel, who became a fallen angel not because he killed someone, but I think it may have been for refusing to bow down to someone.