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July 15, 2014 at 1:41 am (This post was last modified: July 15, 2014 at 1:44 am by Whateverist.)
1. How is the method by which you became a Christian reliable?
2. Apart from church dogma, how can you know what happens when we die?
3. What if you and your silly bible are wrong and there is no heaven, hell or afterlife of any kind?
4. If you are God's unthinking lacky, how can you call yourself moral? Do you really think morality is simply a question of rule following?
5. Even if there is a God, you are obviously free to do what you want. The prisons are full of Christians. Do you or do you not believe God gave man free will?
6. If all you do is follow God's rules, how does your life have any meaning? What makes it your life?
7. Where did that which you believe created the universe come from? (And if anything can always have existed, why not the universe and all its prior conditions?)
8. What about miracles? Aside from the most ridiculous claims, wouldn't most of what technology makes possible today have seemed miraculous to the ancients? So what's the big deal?
9. What’s your view of Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris? Do you read anything else but the bible?
10. If there is but one God, then why does every society have a different religion? [Props to Jenny.]
(July 15, 2014 at 1:41 am)whateverist Wrote: 1. How is the method by which you became a Christian reliable?
Because Jesus had someone reach out to me, I could feel it. When I read the gospels I felt the holy spirit rush in to my life and what I had done wrong become so clear but yet I was so at peace. There is no way that could be anything but the holy spirit.
Quote:2. Apart from church dogma, how can you know what happens when we die?
Because I accepted god into my heart and he quides me everyday.
Quote:3. What if you and your silly bible are wrong and there is no heaven, hell or afterlife of any kind?
Why would you call the bible silly, it is the most inspiring testament on earth. However too imagine life without god is well, bleak.
Quote:4. If you are God's unthinking lacky, how can you call yourself moral? Do you really think morality is simply a question of rule following?
Of course I'm not a unthinking lacky, and your thinking of gods rules the wrong way. Instead of a robot following a set of commands think of its like the rules a father may set out for his son. These are rules of love to teach us.
Quote:5. Even if there is a God, you are obviously free to do what you want. The prisons are full of Christians. Do you or do you not believe God gave man free will?
Of course he did, he wanted children not robots!
Quote:6. If all you do is follow God's rules, how does your life have any meaning? What makes it your life?
It is following god and living to his imagine that gives life meaning, Agian think of it like a father/son relationship.
Quote:7. Where did that which you believe created the universe come from? (And if anything can always have existed, why not the universe and all its prior conditions?)
How can you say the austere beauty of the universe is a simple coincidence, look at our brains for example, even today our technology can not even come close!.
Quote:8. What about miracles? Aside from the most ridiculous claims, wouldn't most of what technology makes possible today have seemed miraculous to the ancients? So what's the big deal?
Despite all the wonders of modern medicine, I have yet to see a man rise from the dead after 3 days.
Quote:
9. What’s your view of Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris? Do you read anything else but the bible?
Harris I don't know, but dawkins is stuffy and arrogant, but hitchens on the hand is nuts. Despite the fact he is a alcoholic that I disahree with I have to respect his brand of crazy and how he sticks to his princples.
Quote:10. If there is but one God, then why does every society have a different religion? [Props to Jenny.]
Because, some are jealous of humanity's relationship with god and seek to destroy by leading us astray.
Christian hat off.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
(July 15, 2014 at 5:10 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: I'm gonna put my christian hat on here
(July 15, 2014 at 1:41 am)whateverist Wrote: 1. How is the method by which you became a Christian reliable?
Because Jesus had someone reach out to me, I could feel it. When I read the gospels I felt the holy spirit rush in to my life and what I had done wrong become so clear but yet I was so at peace. There is no way that could be anything but the holy spirit.
Quote:2. Apart from church dogma, how can you know what happens when we die?
Because I accepted god into my heart and he quides me everyday.
Quote:3. What if you and your silly bible are wrong and there is no heaven, hell or afterlife of any kind?
Why would you call the bible silly, it is the most inspiring testament on earth. However too imagine life without god is well, bleak.
Quote:4. If you are God's unthinking lacky, how can you call yourself moral? Do you really think morality is simply a question of rule following?
Of course I'm not a unthinking lacky, and your thinking of gods rules the wrong way. Instead of a robot following a set of commands think of its like the rules a father may set out for his son. These are rules of love to teach us.
Quote:5. Even if there is a God, you are obviously free to do what you want. The prisons are full of Christians. Do you or do you not believe God gave man free will?
Of course he did, he wanted children not robots!
Quote:6. If all you do is follow God's rules, how does your life have any meaning? What makes it your life?
It is following god and living to his imagine that gives life meaning, Agian think of it like a father/son relationship.
Quote:7. Where did that which you believe created the universe come from? (And if anything can always have existed, why not the universe and all its prior conditions?)
How can you say the austere beauty of the universe is a simple coincidence, look at our brains for example, even today our technology can not even come close!.
Quote:8. What about miracles? Aside from the most ridiculous claims, wouldn't most of what technology makes possible today have seemed miraculous to the ancients? So what's the big deal?
Despite all the wonders of modern medicine, I have yet to see a man rise from the dead after 3 days.
Quote:
9. What’s your view of Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris? Do you read anything else but the bible?
Harris I don't know, but dawkins is stuffy and arrogant, but hitchens on the hand is nuts. Despite the fact he is a alcoholic that I disahree with I have to respect his brand of crazy and how he sticks to his princples.
Quote:10. If there is but one God, then why does every society have a different religion? [Props to Jenny.]
Because, some are jealous of humanity's relationship with god and seek to destroy by leading us astray.
Christian hat off.
Sorry, lemon, I'm not buying it. You were too grammatically correct and you DIDN'T use any inappropriate CAPITALIZATION, nor nearly enough exclamation points!!!!!!!
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
July 15, 2014 at 11:22 am (This post was last modified: July 15, 2014 at 12:18 pm by John V.)
You need to work on the list or the title, as I counted 15 questions.
ETA: Actually 4 and 6 start with "If..." questions, so that's 17.
(July 15, 2014 at 1:41 am)whateverist Wrote: 1. How is the method by which you became a Christian reliable?
N/A - I didn't claim that it's reliable. It's as reliable as the methodology I used for major life decisions like whether/who to marry, whether to have children, or what career to pursue. Seems good enough to me.
Quote:2. Apart from church dogma, how can you know what happens when we die?
I can't.
Quote:3. What if you and your silly bible are wrong and there is no heaven, hell or afterlife of any kind?
Then there's no afterlife. So what? I'm happier in this life as a Christian than I was before, so I've still gained from Christianity.
Quote:4. If you are God's unthinking lacky, how can you call yourself moral? Do you really think morality is simply a question of rule following?
N/A - I think, so I'm not an unthinking lackey.
Quote:5. Even if there is a God, you are obviously free to do what you want. The prisons are full of Christians. Do you or do you not believe God gave man free will?
I do.
Quote:6. If all you do is follow God's rules, how does your life have any meaning? What makes it your life?
N/A, as I do more than follow God's rules. This is necessary, as God's rules don't cover everything. Read up on Paul and liberty.
Quote:7. Where did that which you believe created the universe come from?
God eternally existed.
Quote:(And if anything can always have existed, why not the universe and all its prior conditions?)
Philosophically, yes, the universe could have always existed. However, the current thought is that it had a beginning.
Quote:8. What about miracles? Aside from the most ridiculous claims, wouldn't most of what technology makes possible today have seemed miraculous to the ancients? So what's the big deal?
The big deal is power over death. I don't know about you, but I like life and don't want it to end.
Quote:9. What’s your view of Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris?
They're atheists.
Quote:Do you read anything else but the bible?
Yes. I'm currently reading A Perfect Spy by Le Carre. It's not great, but good enough that I'll finish it.
Quote:10. If there is but one God, then why does every society have a different religion? [Props to Jenny.]
Because people like to make their own rules I suppose.
(July 15, 2014 at 5:10 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: I'm gonna put my christian hat on here
Because Jesus had someone reach out to me, I could feel it. When I read the gospels I felt the holy spirit rush in to my life and what I had done wrong become so clear but yet I was so at peace. There is no way that could be anything but the holy spirit.
Because I accepted god into my heart and he quides me everyday.
Why would you call the bible silly, it is the most inspiring testament on earth. However too imagine life without god is well, bleak.
Of course I'm not a unthinking lacky, and your thinking of gods rules the wrong way. Instead of a robot following a set of commands think of its like the rules a father may set out for his son. These are rules of love to teach us.
Of course he did, he wanted children not robots!
It is following god and living to his imagine that gives life meaning, Agian think of it like a father/son relationship.
How can you say the austere beauty of the universe is a simple coincidence, look at our brains for example, even today our technology can not even come close!.
Despite all the wonders of modern medicine, I have yet to see a man rise from the dead after 3 days.
Harris I don't know, but dawkins is stuffy and arrogant, but hitchens on the hand is nuts. Despite the fact he is a alcoholic that I disahree with I have to respect his brand of crazy and how he sticks to his princples.
Because, some are jealous of humanity's relationship with god and seek to destroy by leading us astray.
Christian hat off.
Sorry, lemon, I'm not buying it. You were too grammatically correct and you DIDN'T use any inappropriate CAPITALIZATION, nor nearly enough exclamation points!!!!!!!
In all truth not all christians are brain dead morons
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
(July 15, 2014 at 1:41 am)whateverist Wrote: 1. How is the method by which you became a Christian reliable?
*Answered from the perspective of a Christian. And yes, I am qualified to do so. Having been raised in the Deep South, in a Christian family, I have heard Christian responses to similar questions many many times.
1. I became a Christian, like virtually ALL Christians do, because my parents were Christian, as were their parents, and theirs, and so on. If you are taught Christianity by other Christians, then of course the method is reliable.
Quote:2. Apart from church dogma, how can you know what happens when we die?
We Christians have supernatural powers - not only do we know what can't be known, we know it with our hearts (whereas in a non-Christian, the heart is a muscle that pumps blood and is incapable of thought).
Quote:3. What if you and your silly bible are wrong and there is no heaven, hell or afterlife of any kind?
You are free to take you're chances!
Quote:4. If you are God's unthinking lacky, how can you call yourself moral? Do you really think morality is simply a question of rule following?
Morality is determined by God, and I follow God's moral teachings, therefore I am moral.
Quote:5. Even if there is a God, you are obviously free to do what you want. The prisons are full of Christians. Do you or do you not believe God gave man free will?
The people in prisons who call themselves Christians aren't really Christians, otherwise they wouldn't be in prison.
Quote:6. If all you do is follow God's rules, how does your life have any meaning? What makes it your life?
Because glorifying God gives my life meaning. His glory is graceful and his grace is glorious.
Quote:7. Where did that which you believe created the universe come from? (And if anything can always have existed, why not the universe and all its prior conditions?)
Because God, by definition, has always existed. The universe is not defined that way.
Quote:8. What about miracles? Aside from the most ridiculous claims, wouldn't most of what technology makes possible today have seemed miraculous to the ancients? So what's the big deal?
Miracles can only be believed by the faithful. If you don't believe they can occur, then they don't.
Quote:9. What’s your view of Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris? Do you read anything else but the bible?
Hitchens is already burning in hell; Dawkins and Harris will soon follow.
Quote:10. If there is but one God, then why does every society have a different religion? [Props to Jenny.]
Unless every society follows the one true Living God (Yahweh), then they are following a false god, and will burn in hell after they die.
*now I need a shower.
"If there are gaps they are in our knowledge, not in things themselves." Chapman Cohen
"Shit-apples don't fall far from the shit-tree, Randy." Mr. Lahey
(July 15, 2014 at 11:22 am)alpha male Wrote: You need to work on the list or the title, as I counted 15 questions.
ETA: Actually 4 and 6 start with "If..." questions, so that's 17.
(July 15, 2014 at 1:41 am)whateverist Wrote: 1. How is the method by which you became a Christian reliable?
N/A - I didn't claim that it's reliable. It's as reliable as the methodology I used for major life decisions like whether/who to marry, whether to have children, or what career to pursue. Seems good enough to me.
Quote:2. Apart from church dogma, how can you know what happens when we die?
I can't.
Quote:3. What if you and your silly bible are wrong and there is no heaven, hell or afterlife of any kind?
Then there's no afterlife. So what? I'm happier in this life as a Christian than I was before, so I've still gained from Christianity.
<snip>
Quote:8. What about miracles? Aside from the most ridiculous claims, wouldn't most of what technology makes possible today have seemed miraculous to the ancients? So what's the big deal?
The big deal is power over death. I don't know about you, but I like life and don't want it to end.
<snip>
Quote:10. If there is but one God, then why does every society have a different religion? [Props to Jenny.]
Because people like to make their own rules I suppose.
Nothing like honest answers.--- no sarcasm intended
I would question you about number one though. I think you have rather more to go on with marriage, career, and kids. I'm sure whether your wife exists was never a question and the only real question was were you choosing the right woman. Ditto career. You have to have one and there is some information about them though not how each one would turn out for you. And you can look at kids and how they turn out for other people.
If three is accurate, more power to you, provided you don't try to legislate law requiring that the rest of us try it.
The answer to question eight seems to be that "I'd rather believe things are the way I'd like them to be than not." Is that a fair assessment?
The answer to question ten is the only one I find really disingenuous. You don't think they reached their conclusion the same way you became a christian?
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
(July 15, 2014 at 3:17 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Nothing like honest answers.--- no sarcasm intended
Props that you're actually addressing the Christian responder. Seems others would rather just set up and knock down straw men.
Quote:I would question you about number one though. I think you have rather more to go on with marriage, career, and kids. I'm sure whether your wife exists was never a question and the only real question was were you choosing the right woman. Ditto career. You have to have one and there is some information about them though not how each one would turn out for you. And you can look at kids and how they turn out for other people.
Whether a god exists has never been a question for me. There's not the slightest part of me that believes that universes or life just happen.
Quote:If three is accurate, more power to you, provided you don't try to legislate law requiring that the rest of us try it.
Christianity took me from addict to successful husband/father/professional. Three is very accurate. More generally, surveys on happiness show theists/atheists to be close to equal in relatively wealthy countries, while theists are significantly happier in relatively poor countries.
Quote:The answer to question eight seems to be that "I'd rather believe things are the way I'd like them to be than not." Is that a fair assessment?
It's an answer to the third part of the question. The first two were too ambiguous to address.
Quote:The answer to question ten is the only one I find really disingenuous. You don't think they reached their conclusion the same way you became a christian?
As I read it, ten speaks to origins of different religions, not to reasons people accept them today. Regarding acceptance today, most people do what their parents did without thinking too much about it.
(July 15, 2014 at 3:17 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Nothing like honest answers.--- no sarcasm intended
Props that you're actually addressing the Christian responder. Seems others would rather just set up and knock down straw men.
Quote:I would question you about number one though. I think you have rather more to go on with marriage, career, and kids. I'm sure whether your wife exists was never a question and the only real question was were you choosing the right woman. Ditto career. You have to have one and there is some information about them though not how each one would turn out for you. And you can look at kids and how they turn out for other people.
Whether a god exists has never been a question for me. There's not the slightest part of me that believes that universes or life just happen.
Quote:If three is accurate, more power to you, provided you don't try to legislate law requiring that the rest of us try it.
Christianity took me from addict to successful husband/father/professional. Three is very accurate. More generally, surveys on happiness show theists/atheists to be close to equal in relatively wealthy countries, while theists are significantly happier in relatively poor countries.
Quote:The answer to question eight seems to be that "I'd rather believe things are the way I'd like them to be than not." Is that a fair assessment?
It's an answer to the third part of the question. The first two were too ambiguous to address.
Quote:The answer to question ten is the only one I find really disingenuous. You don't think they reached their conclusion the same way you became a christian?
As I read it, ten speaks to origins of different religions, not to reasons people accept them today. Regarding acceptance today, most people do what their parents did without thinking too much about it.
I certainly was not trying to set up straw men, rather I was answering the question as I would have 2 years ago.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Quote:Some Questions Atheist Cannot Truly and Honestly REALLY Answer! Which leads to some interesting conclusions…
1. How Did You Become an Atheist?
2. What happens when we die?
3. What if you’re wrong? And there is a Heaven? And there is a HELL!
4. Without God, where do you get your morality from?
5. If there is no God, can we do what we want? Are we free to murder and rape? While good deeds are unrewarded?
6. If there is no god, how does your life have any meaning?
7. Where did the universe come from?
8. What about miracles? What all the people who claim to have a connection with Jesus? What about those who claim to have seen saints or angels?
9. What’s your view of Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris?
10. If there is no God, then why does every society have a religion?
Apparently, none of us can "Truly and Honestly REALLY Answer" the question how we became atheists. Like, oh, I don't know, "I stopped believing in a god" isn't a true, honest answer to how it happened...
I'm also wondering why they allude to these "interesting conclusions" and then never talk about what these conclusions are supposed to be, because I'm pretty sure just about every atheist in these forums has an honest answer to every single question they're asking.
It's a cryin' shame this article doesn't have a comments section.
But all laughing aside, I'd also like to follow up on your answer to #10. You had said:
Quote:There's not the slightest part of me that believes that universes or life just happen.
I just want to say that I am even more incredulous that you could think gods could just happen. I know, I know. That's the way you've defined Him. But I really think you may be over estimating the power of definition.
Be that as it may, I'm not offended that you are a Christian. I would just encourage you to be the best one you can. Don't assume too much. Don't mix what you choose to believe with what you have reason to believe. But by all means carry on with your faith. There is no reason I know of to drop it.
