They know who fired it. They have tapes of conversation between the separatist and russian military command where they told them they fucked it, it was a airline.

And 27 of my countrymen are dead.

Whoever's responsible for those and the other deaths have to be held to account.

Quote:Colonel general Kamenskys career being on the line

That's a shit reason to murder innocent civilians.

(July 17, 2014 at 7:39 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Colonel general Kamenskys career being on the line

That's a shit reason to murder innocent civilians.

Haven't you heard... There are no 'innocent civilians'.

(July 17, 2014 at 7:31 pm)Isun Wrote: They know who fired it. They have tapes of conversation between the separatist and russian military command where they told them they fucked it, it was a airline.

Who's they?

(July 17, 2014 at 7:39 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Colonel general Kamenskys career being on the line

That's a shit reason to murder innocent civilians.

He didn't think these were civilians. The soviets had no positive identification of Korean air 007.

He knew the immediate prior history of American armed incursion of soviet airspace in the region. He knew flight paths of the Korean airline 007 was highly suspicious, because it first flew soviet Kamchatka peninsula, then when soviet interceptors rose to intercept it changed course to depart soviet airspace, and when soviet intercept broke off it turned again to reenter soviet airspace. He knew there were no scheduled civilian airline traffic in the region because Korean airline 007 was far off course. He knew soviet interceptors have flashed lights, fired warning shots, attempted radio communication, and the plane in question had not responded. Instead it climbed and slowed down to cause soviet interceptors matching course and speed to overshoot, in what looked to the soviet pilots like an active evasive maneuver. He knew the plane flew close to a major soviet missile range, and during the following day a major missile test was to be conducted.

I think under the same circumstances, any commander would have ordered to shoot.

The decision was made easier because he knew if he didn't shoot and let the plane fly away, and he couldn't prove subsequently the plane wasn't military, his career was finished. And the behavior of the plane did, perhaps coincidentally, looked a lot more honestly like it was a military aircraft on a signal or other spy mission than US Cold War propaganda portrayed.

(July 17, 2014 at 7:34 pm)Beccs Wrote: And 27 of my countrymen are dead.

Whoever's responsible for those and the other deaths have to be held to account.

Beccs, one couple holidaying are from my little town "Sunbury".

Don't send civilian aircraft over war-zones. I would have thought they would have known better by now given all the prior incidents.

What are the odds that two of the world's biggest disaster zones (Malaysian Airlines and Ukraine) would come together? It seems to me as if the Universe has a sadistic sense of humor, and hopefully this tragedy doesn't get worse because of Russia (along with the fact that it shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet) taking this as a pretext for war.

Quote:his career was finished.

I'm not buying it, Chuck. Its still a shitty reason.