Just because Christians might not respect the beliefs of atheists have to disrespect the belief of Christians. Or vice versa, we should not let the insults of others incite us to insult them.

(September 26, 2014 at 9:39 pm)Hezekiah Wrote: I don't mean to be a "hippie" about this. But I was geniunely wondering:

I'm a Christian and I don't force my beliefs onto anyone. I used to be athiest then agnostic, and when I picked up Christianity again, I came to terms that people should be able to believe whatever they want as long as their beliefs aren't cultivating hatred towards another human being.

I also have many athiest, agnostic, and a few muslim friends. They are all awesome individuals, and we find ourselves in debates and disagreements about worldviews, but at the end of the day we just agree to disagree, and respect each other as fellow human beings.

I am also very aware of the "Christianity complex". Christians who feel the need to tell people that they are all going to hell and that they need to "turn from their sins". Yea, I get it, it annoys me too. But I have also been insulted by atheist individuals (luckily I'm pretty laid-back so I tend to shrug it off and laugh at myself if possible).

In conclusion my question is kind of a two-sided question:

Do you think it is possible for Christians and Athiest to come to terms with their differences? And if so, or if not, what do you think it would take to make something like that happen?

This is complicated. I respect many, many Christians, many Jews, and a few Muslims and a few Buddhists not to mention at least one Hindu as human beings. The percentages roughly mirror the numbers of such people I know. There are also few atheists I do not respect. That part is mostly simple.

The problem is respecting their religious beliefs. When those beliefs are represented to me as "The Bible (or the Koran, or the Pope) said so and I believe it," I find I cannot respect that position. Nor can I respect religious beliefs decked out as scientific ones, or the refusal to consider the historical evidence when looking at religious texts and traditions. Some beliefs I simply cannot take overly seriously.

It isn't necessarily a problem I have with religion. There are a whole raft of conspiracy theories I can't take seriously either. It's not the conclusions, it's the sloppy/dishonest thinking that gets me.

While I can respect people's faith based on their own personal experience/feeling of inner truth, I cannot take them seriously if they persist in thinking that such experiences should convince anyone else.

Finally I have no respect for the views of religious persons who insist that everyone believes in god and that atheists are merely in denial.

Yeah, as I said above, I have a problem with the respecting beliefs part - I still don't quite know what is meant by it though.

I suppose we mean by "bother": those beliefs that grate with our own. I'll happily coexist with anyone. In my recent job for 6 years I doubt that most of my work mates knew that I'm a Christian. It just isn't relevant and doesn't come up. There's one client that was very vocal in her atheist beliefs, and we got to having some discussion. We happily enjoy each others point of view, even though we don't accept that for ourselves. I suppose what I'm saying is... it doesn't really figure until your line is crossed.

(September 29, 2014 at 3:42 pm)Lek Wrote: Respecting each others' beliefs is as simple as saying "I don't agree with your beliefs, but I respect you as an individual." I work along side of individuals who are non-christian and we act together to get the job done. We talk, joke, laugh and all that good stuff. We don't condemn each other for what we believe, but at the same time they know that I'm a christian. If I worked with someone for a year and they still didn't know I was a christian, I'd feel like I wasn't living my faith out--"wishy, washy". At the same time, if I feel that someone doesn't want to talk about their or my beliefs, I don't discuss it. But, at the same time I'm open to hear about theirs as long as they're not trying to force it on me. That is respecting each other's beliefs.

There's a difference between respecting beliefs and respecting people. I can respect a person whose beliefs are childish and stupid. I can respect a Christian who doesn't define themselves by what they believe, but I can never respect Christian beliefs, or any other belief that can't demonstrate itself to be true. I can't feel respect for a Christian who defines themselves by their beliefs because I can't respect someone who clearly doesn't respect themselves.

Individual people can be respected, their beliefs do not.

If you hold beliefs that are unsupported by evidence and valid and sound logic, there is no way I can respect them.

Respect is earned.

If you keep your beliefs to yourself and don't try force them on others, especially through legislation, that goes a long way towards the person earning my respect. But their beliefs are still not worthy of respect.

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(September 26, 2014 at 10:07 pm)Hezekiah Wrote: I guess that would beg the question, should goverment be an atheist structure?

No, government should not be atheist, it should be secular. Which is the way the US government was created.

Quote:With all due respect of course, some would argue that atheism is a religion (a minefield discussion I'm well aware of), so would that mean that goverment should, instead of being anti-religious, be "a-religious", if you will? In layman's terms, should government not recognize any particular religous/non-religious values?

The opposite of a religious based government is not an atheist government, it is a secular government.

(September 29, 2014 at 4:34 pm)Jenny A Wrote: This is complicated. I respect many, many Christians, many Jews, and a few Muslims and a few Buddhists not to mention at least one Hindu as human beings. The percentages roughly mirror the numbers of such people I know. There are also few atheists I do not respect. That part is mostly simple.

The problem is respecting their religious beliefs. When those beliefs are represented to me as "The Bible (or the Koran, or the Pope) said so and I believe it," I find I cannot respect that position. Nor can I respect religious beliefs decked out as scientific ones, or the refusal to consider the historical evidence when looking at religious texts and traditions. Some beliefs I simply cannot take overly seriously.

It isn't necessarily a problem I have with religion. There are a whole raft of conspiracy theories I can't take seriously either. It's not the conclusions, it's the sloppy/dishonest thinking that gets me.

While I can respect people's faith based on their own personal experience/feeling of inner truth, I cannot take them seriously if they persist in thinking that such experiences should convince anyone else.

Finally I have no respect for the views of religious persons who insist that everyone believes in god and that atheists are merely in denial.

This clears a lot up for me, and I agree, religious persons who - A) don't respect themselves B) Live out their "faith" in a means that is dishonest to themselves or others and/or selfishly practiced C) force their religious experiences as being dogma for everyone else - make respecting their beliefs, difficult and nearly impossible.

I have run into quite a few religious people like that, as well as non-religious people. However I would urge that because of the nature of these difficult to respect individuals being across the board non-religiously and religiously (from what I'm understanding from a lot of the posts), that it depends on the individual and not necessarily always the belief that individual holds. In other words, dicks can be dicks whether they're Christian, Atheist, Hindu, or whatever.

In the case of "respecting beliefs" (and I'm definitely speaking to myself here as well) it would be best phrase it as "respecting others, and exclude their beliefs" in order to seperate the individual from the stereotype of the worldview

Quote:With all due respect of course, some would argue that atheism is a religion (a minefield discussion I'm well aware of)

Yeah...and 'bald' is a hair color.

Hello Hezekiah I'd like to say first that you're one of the nicest and most enlightened believers I have met, based on what I have read from you on here. I feel it likely that we could get along just fine.

The question you ask is complex for me. In my own experience, I have found that people I have met who are overly vocal about their christianity are not nice people. This has lead me to the conclusion before that christians aren't very nice. But I realized this is a skewed stereotype, because I have doubtless got on just fine with loads of christians who haven't ever mentioned their faith. And those that mention it in passing I have got on with fine too. So the conclusion I have drawn from experience is that the more religious someone is, the less likely it is I am going to like them as a person and to get along with them.

This makes total sense, because in my opinion christianity is evil, corrupt, immoral, bizarre, controlling, redundant and inconsistent. The more seriously you take the stuff written in the bible as fact, the worse your morals will be and the less nice a person you will be. So if you don't take it that seriously and pick out the bits that seem relevant to you, then probably we can get along fine. But if you really believe all the horrible stuff, you're probably not going to be able to leave it alone, and will try and influence me, bother me, preach to me and act in ways I consider immoral or ridiculous.

So the problem to me is that if someone is a "good christian" then they are likely a bad person who I can't get along with. If they are a "bad christian", then probably we will be fine. But then I am left confused, because the bad christian has just taken from the religion the nice parts, so all they are doing is carrying around a mirror for themselves, and seeing this as somehow located within a religion. I don't know why they want to associate in any way with the rest of it, which they would never actually follow or act on. I've always felt people have their own morals, and they use religion to a lesser or greater extent to justify them or impose them on others. If your morals are good, then you don't line up with christianity. So I don't know how you can accept it, or why you need it. It's like staying with an abusive partner because they are nice to you some of the time. (Not really, but sort of.)

But that's my problem

I think the only way to respect each others beliefs is to mind our own business, keep our beliefs to ourselves.