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Correct me if I am wrong here. With out god there can be no satan, right? If I question gods existence I can't give ANY credence to satan's existence. Just because I might be skeptical about god does not mean I need to replace him with anything else. Even if you believe that the stay puff marshmallow man is the savior, I would argue you might not be an atheist.
(October 28, 2014 at 10:09 am)polar bear Wrote: Correct me if I am wrong here. With out god there can be no satan, right? If I question gods existence I can't give ANY credence to satan's existence.
That's correct, but in your ignorance, you still serve him because without God's protection, he can use you for his nefarious purposes such as homosexuality and killing people.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
(October 28, 2014 at 10:09 am)polar bear Wrote: Correct me if I am wrong here. With out god there can be no satan, right? If I question gods existence I can't give ANY credence to satan's existence.
That's correct, but in your ignorance, you still serve him because without God's protection, he can use you for his nefarious purposes such as homosexuality and killing people.
What? I get you think I am ignorant (it is your right to think that) but just because I am ignorant does not mean I serve anyone or thing! And why homosexuality and killing people?
(October 27, 2014 at 2:26 pm)dyresand Wrote: Think about this for a moment and let it sink in.
What if Lucifer was actually the good guy
Actually, take it a step back further. What the Bible is, is a one-sided claim. The well is poisoned against Satan before he can get a word in edgewise. Perhaps his claim doesn't even include the events in Job. We never hear his side, and we're told that we shouldn't.
The whole thing is extremely sketchy. If one person wrote a book about how awesome they were, how shitty this other person is, and how we should never listen to the other person's account, we'd be skeptical as hell. God, however, gets a free pass on this, cuz religion.
October 28, 2014 at 11:25 am (This post was last modified: October 28, 2014 at 11:26 am by Alex K.)
(October 28, 2014 at 10:38 am)polar bear Wrote:
(October 28, 2014 at 10:28 am)Alex K Wrote: That's correct, but in your ignorance, you still serve him because without God's protection, he can use you for his nefarious purposes such as homosexuality and killing people.
What? I get you think I am ignorant (it is your right to think that) but just because I am ignorant does not mean I serve anyone or thing! And why homosexuality and killing people?
Haha, no, that's not what I meant at all
To a very religious person, your ignorance of God in their eyes would make you an unwitting servant of the dark forces even (or especially) if you do not believe them to exist.
As in Baudelaire, My dear brethren, do not ever forget, when you hear the progress of lights praised, that the loveliest trick of the Devil is to persuade you that he does not exist!
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Think about this for a moment and let it sink in.
What if Lucifer was actually the good guy
Satan
•Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.
•There is no biblical record of Satan engaging in the murder of torture of any human being, unlike God, who is guilty (and proudly guilty) of commiting genocide.
•There is no biblical record of Satan ever ordering someone to kill someone else, unlike God, who has repeatedly demanded the deaths of those who commit even the smallest of offenses.
•Satan will not be holding a massively dramatic ceremony full of blood and death for the return of his son to Earth. God apparently will.
Their is not much known about Satan and his side of the story. Why was God trying to keep knowledge from us? The knowledge of good and evil? With out it we have no choices. No opposites just one path. Maybe God is the deceiver and Satan was trying to expose him. Kind of like how we are trying to expose the powers that be and they are calling us terrorist.
lets see the miss deeds god did.
God
•God takes away Adam and Eve's eternal life, thus commiting the first murder, and holds their descendants responsible and visiting Adam and Eve's punishment down on their children. In today's moral standards, the sins of the father die with the father.
•God destroys all life on Earth in a great flood, except for a drunk (Noah) and his family, for failing to worship him.
•God's tenth plague upon the Israelites was the unjustified murder of all firstborn sons in Egypt, which undoubtedly included little children.
•Before sending the plagues to Egypt, God "hardened Pharaoh's heart" so that he wouldn't let the Israelites go, so he could have an excuse to visit horrible plagues upon them, like boils, killing cattle and murdering all firstborn sons. (Exodus 4:21)
•God orders the Levites to kill their "every man and his neighnor" for worshipping another god. This cost 3000 lives. (Exodus 32:27)
•God sends a plague to the Israelites, apparently feeling that mass-butchery wasn't enough of a punishment. (Exodus 32:35)
•God kills Onan for refusing to impregnate his late brother's (whom God also slew) wife and instead "spilling his seed on the ground." (Genesis 38:8-10)
•God kills the entire populations of Soddom and Gammorah (again, including women, children and infants) for practicing certain sexual techniques.
•God gives all Philistines hemorrhoids in their pubic areas. (1 Samuel 5:9)
•God kills over 50,000 people for looking at an ark. (1 Samuel 6:19)
•God kills 70,000 people because King David decided to have a census. (1 Chronicles 21:7-14)
•God approves of slavery, and instructs owners to beat their slaves. (Proverbs 29:19)
•And, finally, God makes sure that if you are guilty of even the smallest transgression, you shall suffer endlessly for all eternity, following a dramatic homecoming for Jesus, who will be extremely pissed off at everyone for putting him to death, even though it was just the Romans and even though he knew what was going to happen beforehand, and he could have easily avoided it by using his power as God to perform a miracle and prove who he was. (See the entire book of Revelation)
Isn't god so great killing millions of us taking away our immortality.
Giving us the best present ever original sin because 2 people were told by a lizard snake that its okay to eat the fruit, then have us die of old age. then we are forced to praise him... where as there is nothing really required to praise Satan. because if the Judo christian god is real then he is a lesser god that took someone else hard work and claimed it.
It's apparent you like to fantasize, maybe helpful to prevent such useless childish games by actually reading and studying that which you want to criticize. Facing the truth is part of growing up, try it you might find it enlightening.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Hello GC. It must be very hard on you to hang out here, being such a natural magnet for every atheist's resentment toward those who rejected them for their lack of belief. Good day to you.
PS: Of course we all like to fantasize that our understanding of the world around us and beyond is special. And it is .. at least to us.
(October 27, 2014 at 2:26 pm)dyresand Wrote: Think about this for a moment and let it sink in.
What if Lucifer was actually the good guy
Actually, take it a step back further. What the Bible is, is a one-sided claim. The well is poisoned against Satan before he can get a word in edgewise. Perhaps his claim doesn't even include the events in Job. We never hear his side, and we're told that we shouldn't.
The whole thing is extremely sketchy. If one person wrote a book about how awesome they were, how shitty this other person is, and how we should never listen to the other person's account, we'd be skeptical as hell. God, however, gets a free pass on this, cuz religion.
It is really sketchy indeed
- the scripture is the only truth
- don't ask questions
- don't let others ask questions
- whatever goes against the scripture is lie
Any rational mind would call BS on it yet somehow it has successfully brainwashed a major portion of the world.
Quote:To know yet to think that one does not know is best; Not to know yet to think that one knows will lead to difficulty.
- Lau Tzu
Join me on atheistforums Slack (pester tibs via pm if you need invite)
Think about this for a moment and let it sink in.
What if Lucifer was actually the good guy
Satan
•Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.
•There is no biblical record of Satan engaging in the murder of torture of any human being, unlike God, who is guilty (and proudly guilty) of commiting genocide.
•There is no biblical record of Satan ever ordering someone to kill someone else, unlike God, who has repeatedly demanded the deaths of those who commit even the smallest of offenses.
•Satan will not be holding a massively dramatic ceremony full of blood and death for the return of his son to Earth. God apparently will.
Their is not much known about Satan and his side of the story. Why was God trying to keep knowledge from us? The knowledge of good and evil? With out it we have no choices. No opposites just one path. Maybe God is the deceiver and Satan was trying to expose him. Kind of like how we are trying to expose the powers that be and they are calling us terrorist.
lets see the miss deeds god did.
God
•God takes away Adam and Eve's eternal life, thus commiting the first murder, and holds their descendants responsible and visiting Adam and Eve's punishment down on their children. In today's moral standards, the sins of the father die with the father.
•God destroys all life on Earth in a great flood, except for a drunk (Noah) and his family, for failing to worship him.
•God's tenth plague upon the Israelites was the unjustified murder of all firstborn sons in Egypt, which undoubtedly included little children.
•Before sending the plagues to Egypt, God "hardened Pharaoh's heart" so that he wouldn't let the Israelites go, so he could have an excuse to visit horrible plagues upon them, like boils, killing cattle and murdering all firstborn sons. (Exodus 4:21)
•God orders the Levites to kill their "every man and his neighnor" for worshipping another god. This cost 3000 lives. (Exodus 32:27)
•God sends a plague to the Israelites, apparently feeling that mass-butchery wasn't enough of a punishment. (Exodus 32:35)
•God kills Onan for refusing to impregnate his late brother's (whom God also slew) wife and instead "spilling his seed on the ground." (Genesis 38:8-10)
•God kills the entire populations of Soddom and Gammorah (again, including women, children and infants) for practicing certain sexual techniques.
•God gives all Philistines hemorrhoids in their pubic areas. (1 Samuel 5:9)
•God kills over 50,000 people for looking at an ark. (1 Samuel 6:19)
•God kills 70,000 people because King David decided to have a census. (1 Chronicles 21:7-14)
•God approves of slavery, and instructs owners to beat their slaves. (Proverbs 29:19)
•And, finally, God makes sure that if you are guilty of even the smallest transgression, you shall suffer endlessly for all eternity, following a dramatic homecoming for Jesus, who will be extremely pissed off at everyone for putting him to death, even though it was just the Romans and even though he knew what was going to happen beforehand, and he could have easily avoided it by using his power as God to perform a miracle and prove who he was. (See the entire book of Revelation)
Isn't god so great killing millions of us taking away our immortality.
Giving us the best present ever original sin because 2 people were told by a lizard snake that its okay to eat the fruit, then have us die of old age. then we are forced to praise him... where as there is nothing really required to praise Satan. because if the Judo christian god is real then he is a lesser god that took someone else hard work and claimed it.
It's apparent you like to fantasize, maybe helpful to prevent such useless childish games by actually reading and studying that which you want to criticize. Facing the truth is part of growing up, try it you might find it enlightening.
GC
Believe what you want to believe but in reality god is evil. you can't say god is good because you don't know god. angels are the closest beings to god and they know him better than any human would. In Satans defense he never killed anyone directly only a few people over a bet with god. god has killed way more people and in really horrific ways. so back to the tree argument he knew before hand what was going to happen lucifer more than likely wanted to expose god as a lair to them and said the fruit is okay yada yada yada you wont die eat it you will know of good and evil. Hint good and evil yet they weren't smart enough to figure out god was evil. because god said pretty much get the fuck out of the garden he hands out punishments and sends them on their way. Then there is job a bet remember he made that guys a life a living hell if job knew what was doing to him and it was for a bet he wouldn't be bothered with god, you just don't play with human lives ever. Don't get me started with original sin because that is really dumb and over a fruit he could have gotten rid of not to mention punish only those 2 original humans not all of humanity. its like having 2 kids they both steal from the cookie jar you punish them years down the road you punish their kids for no reason and say you are born of original sin from your parents. He orders the killing and execution of non followers mean children babies and god said keep the virgins kiil the others. if that's not a bigger hint towards anything because Christians Extremists are just as bad as Islamist Extremists. you follow a god who does evil things and you says its because of a plan or its his will but when lets say if the devil shows up and does good things many theists as your self would be its just a trick of the devil he is only helping us to look good. the devil only punishes those who do bad or evil things, it would be against his nature to harm a person who prayed to the wrong god or atheist because for the most part they could be in general good people who did good things. god wouldn't want those people in heaven no so their default is hell. a little more proof how god is evil from your own bible.
1 Kings 22:23
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
2 Chronicles 18:22
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
Jeremiah 4:10
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
Ezekiel 14:9
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
god is a lair oh no, no he was always a lair and a deceitful being in the bible. your rebuttal is flawed i used to be baptist the end.
(pester tibs via pm if you need invite) 
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