If materialism, naturalism, and scientism are true, then you would be delusional to find meaning in your life (as stated by materialism, naturalism, and scientism which state that life is just a bunch of meaningless atoms and particles). There are things in science that do have objective meaning. For example, the fact that the Earth revolves around the sun is a scientific fact and you would, therefore, be delusional to think otherwise. Same thing with creating our own meanings in life since life really has no meaning in terms of science. You would, therefore, be delusional in finding your own personal meanings in life since life has no meaning. If you are going to say something here such as that this is a logical fallacy I am presenting here, then what I would have to say in return is that your own personal viewpoints in that people would not be delusional in creating their own meanings in life, this would also be a logical fallacy since finding your own personal meanings in life when life has no meaning is a contradiction. I don't even care if it's in our evolutionary design to find meaning in life in order to survive and benefit our survival. You would still be delusional in finding your own meanings in life anyway.

Now you might also be thinking that, since it is in our evolutionary design to find meaning in life in order to survive and benefit our survival, that to even perceive this as delusional would contradict our evolutionary design and would be a delusional viewpoint in of itself in terms of evolution as a result. But this would be false because the only way for it to contradict our evolutionary design is if we were to tell ourselves the message that "We are not designed by evolution to find meaning in our lives." That would be the only message that would contradict our evolutionary design. Telling ourselves that "We are delusional in finding meaning in our lives" does not contradict our evolutionary design.

Finally, even Stephen Hawking himself has stated that philosophy is dead and that science is all there is. The viewpoints that others have regarding that you can find your own personal meanings in life and that this would not be delusional, these are philosophical viewpoints which would actually be "dead" (false).

It's a strange way to state it, but I have no problem admitting that life has no apparent independent purpose. It is just shit going on. It can only be assigned an arbitrary purpose from any particular viewpoint. It's easy to understand how a lot of people find religion appealing to fill this void.

I think you are assigning agency to evolution, evolution is just a description of what happens. It didn't design us, nor give us a purpose. And it has no purpose or intent of its own.

Quote:If materialism, naturalism, and scientism are true,

Well, scientism, at least, is self-defeating on the face of it, so you've stumbled at the gate.

Quote:then you would be delusional to find meaning in your life (as stated by materialism, naturalism, and scientism which state that life is just a bunch of meaningless atoms and particles).

Could you point me to a source where materialistic philosophy defines life as quoted above? I'll save you the trouble - you can't.

Quote:There are things in science that do have objective meaning. For example, the fact that the Earth revolves around the sun is a scientific fact and you would, therefore, be delusional to think otherwise.

'Meaning' and 'objective meaning' are not the same thing.

Quote:Same thing with creating our own meanings in life since life really has no meaning in terms of science.

So, biology is no longer a science, but celestial mechanics is?

Quote:You would, therefore, be delusional in finding your own personal meanings in life since life has no meaning.

Again, were is it written 'Life has no meaning?

Quote:If you are going to say something here such as that this is a logical fallacy I am presenting here,

No, I wasn't going to say you're making a logical fallacy. You're just not making sense, which isn't quite the same thing.

Quote:then what I would have to say in return is that your own personal viewpoints in that people would not be delusional in creating their own meanings in life, this would also be a logical fallacy since finding your own personal meanings in life when life has no meaning is a contradiction.

You have yet to establish that life has no meaning, either objective or subjective.

Quote:I don't even care if it's in our evolutionary design to find meaning in life in order to survive and benefit our survival. You would still be delusional in finding your own meanings in life anyway.

I'm confused. You base your argument on what you seem to think are basic principles of science, but are happy to throw evolutionary biology out of the window since it doesn't fit your unsupported claims.

Quote: Now you might also be thinking that, since it is in our evolutionary design to find meaning in life in order to survive and benefit our survival, that to even perceive this as delusional would contradict our evolutionary design and would be a delusional viewpoint in of itself in terms of evolution as a result.

No, I might not be thinking that at all. I'm thinking you're a bit of a nihilist who hasn't really thought through your position and are a tad desperate to support it.

Quote:But this would be false because the only way for it to contradict our evolutionary design is if we were to tell ourselves the message that "We are not designed by evolution to find meaning in our lives." That would be the only message that would contradict our evolutionary design. Telling ourselves that "We are delusional in finding meaning in our lives" does not contradict our evolutionary design.

You want it both ways, it seems.

I won't comment on the Stephen Hawking bit, because you broke the forum rules in posting a link.

Boru

(November 11, 2014 at 4:21 am)ZeldaAdmirer Wrote: If materialism, naturalism, and scientism are true, then you would be delusional to find meaning in your life (as stated by materialism, naturalism, and scientism which state that life is just a bunch of meaningless atoms and particles)

Indeed... everything is just meaningless particles.
How on Earth have we come up with such a word as "meaning", if the mere concept of it doesn't exist?

You ever heard of complexity and abstraction layers?

I'm locking this thread due to it being started by a sock of a banned member who, from past experience, didn't start them to engage in conversation. Also he's started another thread which is a replica of this one which has inadvertently started a conversation, so that will remain open for the time being.

Fidel