(December 25, 2014 at 5:47 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 25, 2014 at 5:39 pm)strawdawg Wrote: It could be I'm wrong and if I am I apoligize. What does an atheist use for a moral compass? What determines right and wrong?

You really ask that question?

Have you looked at this board at all, since some wind blew you in here? This question has been asked about a billion times and answered in a billion threads at nauseum.

You really don't strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed.

What? Come on now, everyone knows atheists barbecue kittens.

(December 25, 2014 at 5:39 pm)strawdawg Wrote: . What does an atheist use for a moral compass? What determines right and wrong?

Reasoned consideration of my actions and their consequences, empathy for my fellow beings, and respect for life in general. Christians are often quick to tell me that this is an inferior moral compass to theirs because it lacks authority, but I fail to see how thinking about things is less preferable than "a wizard said so."

(December 25, 2014 at 6:12 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Christians are often quick to tell me that this is an inferior moral compass to theirs because it lacks authority, but I fail to see how thinking about things is less preferable than "a wizard said so."

Because authority is what they're craving. They want someone to take them by the hand when they cross the streets. Wanna see something creepy for christian kids?

(December 25, 2014 at 5:47 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 25, 2014 at 5:39 pm)strawdawg Wrote: It could be I'm wrong and if I am I apoligize. What does an atheist use for a moral compass? What determines right and wrong?

You really ask that question?

Have you looked at this board at all, since some wind blew you in here? This question has been asked about a billion times and answered in a billion threads at nauseum.

You really don't strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed.

I assume you are the sharpest tool in the shed, right? What do you base that on?

(December 25, 2014 at 6:15 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 25, 2014 at 6:12 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Christians are often quick to tell me that this is an inferior moral compass to theirs because it lacks authority, but I fail to see how thinking about things is less preferable than "a wizard said so."

Because authority is what they're craving. They want someone to take them by the hand when they cross the streets. Wanna see something creepy for christian kids?

Yikes!

Atheists get a sense of right and wrong (actual morality) exactly the same way theists do, as has been described above. I'd call it conscience. If you don't have a conscience, you're a sociopath.

Many theists also have a different version of "morality", which is nothing to do with right and wrong. It's simply a list of things a mythical being likes and dislikes, regardless of their benefit or damage to humans.

Theists regularly find their own sense of right and wrong (actual morality) conflicting with their divine edicts (theist morality). They then have to choose one or the other. Many times their actual morality wins out, and they overrule God. For example, they see someone working on a Sunday. They don't stone them to death. Their conscience knows it's wrong.

When a theist wants to do something that happens to be in line with a divine edict, they can use this edict as an excuse, bypassing the need to explain themselves. This allows for all sorts of prejudice and bigotry, which they would find hard or impossible to defend rationally, but which they feel righteous in doing.

In short, thiest "morality" is a shield to hide behind when you don't want to be accountable for your own actions.

(December 24, 2014 at 2:08 am)AtheistChurchEmployee Wrote: I've been a percussionist for a traditional church service for almost 3 years now. I get paid 75 dollars a Sunday for 2 hours of playing, which may seem like a nice deal to you, but after a while I assure you it's draining to hear the same old bullshit every week. I have gotten very, very good at pretending to be a Christian. I play my best and arrive on time, but I don't think I can do this anymore. It's just too much of a burden. I've lost respect for myself and feel like a hypocrite. But this Christmas Eve rehearsal tonight tipped me over the scale.

The traditional service I usually play is made up mostly of old people. Not a lot of kids. Old folks I can handle as they've already done their damage. It's the brainwashing of children that I really have an issue with. Tonight we ran the entire set for tomorrow night's service, and part of it is apparently a book reading to children who will sit in front of the stage. The reader went on and on with this bullshit about the entire world rejoicing when Jesus was born, and making the kids respond to questions, further cementing the twisted superstitions. I was so angry my knuckles were white. After the rehearsal I was forced to be part of a prayer circle, which lasted about 10 minutes. I almost punched someone I was seething so hard.

I can no longer work under these conditions. After Christmas I'm considering quitting altogether and sleeping in on Sunday instead. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Oddly enough, I have had a very similar experience. I am currently a percussionist at my church. I started while I was christian and I was scared to tell anybody that I stopped. However my experience is much different than yours. I love it. I love the music, I love the people, and I just enjoy it. I do not believe the words, the prayers, or the lyrics; I just love the community. I personally think that humans are terrible when left to their own devices and I see no problem with instilling some kind of values that benefit mankind in our children. I personally believe that at some point, they should be given the opportunity to decide for themselves and not be judged for it (which I was not given). Christianity IS NOT always a bad thing. Obviously there are a lot of problems in the modern churches and that sickens me. But overall, the core doctrine is a good thing. It brings meaning to millions of peoples' lives and I do not think that should be attacked. You are free to disagree with me and I am interested to hear your arguments (in a mature and intellectual way, I am not here to fight).

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(December 25, 2014 at 12:28 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(December 25, 2014 at 11:58 am)IATIA Wrote: I do not think the OP said being a christian was required. He just playing the game, like we all do, for the job.

It would not be in my best interest at my job to profess my dislike for the present day law enforcement, so I just 'play the game' like everyone else does at their job.

Gotta eat!

@AtheistChurchEmployee

75 bucks is 75 bucks.

Um no. There is a bigger picture here. Yes for most people you do what you have to do. But not to the point of losing your dignity or living a lie to placate others.

This isn't just about job title or work. It is not always good to shut up just to fit in. Social norms would not have changed if we always stayed comfortable.

There are worse things in life for many. It certainly isn't something you can tell someone to do as a blanket solution.

I think it is a bit of an overstatement to say Christianity is undignified. Have you ever been in a loving community? I still am. I cannot find it anywhere else but at church. Maybe it makes me a hypocrite but why is that wrong? Why is bringing joy to myself and others around me wrong or undignified? Why is letting my loving parents believe that I still believe in God and (in their eyes) am going to heaven wrong?

Morality, love, e.t.c are good, but attributing that to a invisible supernatural entity is quite dangerous. You love your loving community, yet you are afraid to tell them the truth about yourself. Don't you see, what you consider to be a loving, caring community, is actually an illusion, masking the hate underneath?

(December 26, 2014 at 3:35 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: Morality, love, e.t.c are good, but attributing that to a invisible supernatural entity is quite dangerous. You love your loving community, yet you are afraid to tell them the truth about yourself. Don't you see, what you consider to be a loving, caring community, is actually an illusion, masking the hate underneath?

Fair point, however, it is not hatred, loathing, disownment etc. that I fear. I put myself in their shoes. In their view (which I disagree with but respect) people who do not believe in God are destined to hell, so, if I tell them I am no longer a Christian, some of my closest friends and family will now have to deal with the burden that I am going to hell. That simply is not something I would want to put on them, it would be selfish.