(January 5, 2015 at 11:52 am)robvalue Wrote: Thoughts never hurt anyone Good job too, or else overpopulation would not be a problem anymore.

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Oops, I guess everyone has me on ignore now. Sorry about that. I have a very vivid imagination, it's kept me sane I think. (I'm sane.)

is anyone else getting blank messages like this?

(January 5, 2015 at 10:49 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: This was sort of a question which arose in my mind from the "is religion child abuse" thread.

Is religion always a bad thing?

I'll go on a limb here and say I think not. I honestly believe that had I not found my faith when I did I would not be here. It was a valuable crutch at a time when I desperately needed one. It was, I now believe, based on a lie, but it was no less effective for that, a "spiritual placebo" if you will. No active ingredient but still gives results.

What say you?

I hate questions like this because the believer when you say "yes it is always bad" will childishly take that as bigoted, instead of considering that it is an issue of evidence and pragmatism.

A kaleidoscope is a pretty toy with pretty colors, but it is not a tool. Religion is a result of humans flawed perceptions. It can and does create safety in numbers but it is not a real tool. Hiding behind it and pointing out pretty things and acts of kindness does not change that it is still a result of flawed perceptions and nothing more than a human invention.

Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is a result of evolution, not religion. Religion is nothing more than gap filling and an artificial construct invented by humans to create social order.


Religion is bad because it allows humans to cling to bad claims. That is not to say you can end it by force of law. It is simply a bad way to observe the nature of reality, much like if you tried to use a kaleidoscope in place of a telescope. But it is even worse in that people will kill trying to insist their kaleidoscope deserves to be free from criticism.

You cannot get rid of it, but it must always be treated like a weapon to insure that you can keep it from going off the rails.

Religion is no different than a volcano. Most of the time it can be dormant, but it is still dangerous and you must always keep your eyes on it.

(January 5, 2015 at 10:49 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Is religion always a bad thing?

I find that when a proposition is loaded with the adverbs "always", "never" or the like, it's a good indicator of it's falsehood.

You know what is almost always a bad thing? Black and white thinking. :p

I tend to think that a person is generally better off with accurate beliefs. As are the people around that person.

Generally, anything that stops people from thinking rationally is bad.

(January 5, 2015 at 12:23 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(January 5, 2015 at 10:49 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Is religion always a bad thing?

I find that when a proposition is loaded with the adverbs "always", "never" or the like, it's a good indicator of it's falsehood.

You know what is almost always a bad thing? Black and white thinking. :p

I agree .

(January 5, 2015 at 10:49 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: This was sort of a question which arose in my mind from the "is religion child abuse" thread.

Is religion always a bad thing?

I'll go on a limb here and say I think not. I honestly believe that had I not found my faith when I did I would not be here. It was a valuable crutch at a time when I desperately needed one. It was, I now believe, based on a lie, but it was no less effective for that, a "spiritual placebo" if you will. No active ingredient but still gives results.

What say you?

Religion has been around in some form since before written or even drawn records. There is evidence of ritualistic burial going back to Neanderthals.

National Geographic - Neanderthal Burials Confirmed as Ancient Ritual

There also seems to be some evidence of hardwiring for systems of belief.

Belief Hardwired into our Brains?

I'm not suggesting for a moment that this is evidence of a god but it is clearly evidence that belief is important to humans in evolutionary terms, otherwise it would not be hardwired into our brains.

To dismiss religion as fairy tail or myth is to ignore its function, particularly its psychological function. It is easy to bash the social manifestation of this primary function but that is being drawn into the wrong game.

We can only answer the question, "Is religion always a bad thing?" when we understand its evolved function, and we have only recently started down that road. One thing seems certain, it was a good thing, it led to us evolving into what we are now, if it still is remains to be seen.

MM

(January 5, 2015 at 12:23 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(January 5, 2015 at 10:49 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Is religion always a bad thing?

I find that when a proposition is loaded with the adverbs "always", "never" or the like, it's a good indicator of it's falsehood.

You know what is almost always a bad thing? Black and white thinking. :p

I hope you are not accusing me of black and white thinking. If I said we had to get rid of it by force, then that would be black and white thinking. You also wont get rid of 7 billion humans wanting guns either, but that does not make guns harmless. They are still weapons.

There is not one religion in human history that has not set up a social order then reacted to any challenge to that religious based social order. Claiming religious people can be good, is not the issue. The issue is the blind protection of it which is the dangerous part. And as long as religion exists it must always be treated like a loaded gun.

The only "always" I am advocating is to always insist on the ability to challenge it. You take away that leash, you set up a future abuse.

Humans will want their kaleidoscopes but those are in reality a reflection of our own selfish desires, they do not reflect our species understanding of evolution or our understanding of how bad claims can lead to bad ideas which can lead to harm to others.

@OP

I see no reason why it -couldn't be-....and that's a hefty portion of why it's so disappointing/embarassing that no ones managed to crack that nut yet. It's almost as if human beings don't -want- to come up with a positive religion. We like our gods to be petty and cruel. I mean hell..there are contenders for the title. But they're tiny, marginalized - they hold no mass appeal and certainly haven't been successful, if the usual offerings are a measure of success.