(January 14, 2015 at 12:23 am)Drich Wrote: I have been asked this question so many different times in my last two threads I think it should be posted once and for all.

It's real simple.

All canonical Jesus Christ centered religions are good.

Why?

Attonement.

The same attonement that is offered to us when we willfully sin is also offered when we are trying to love God with all of our heart, mind, spirit, and strength.

So this beggs the question who is right? Which version of Christianity is correct? None are. The thing is.. We don't have to be.

So what's the trick? One must have the attonement offered by Christ. According to Paul to his letter to the Galations, this 'gospel' is the canonical/biblical Gospel. All other 'new gospels' are false.

Therefore the only ones that fall under the Christian 'freedom of religion' are those who know and follow the Jesus/gospel found in the canonical scriptures.

Jesus didn't write any gospels... come to think of it he didn't actually commit anything to writing... how strange?

MM

I am glad you answered, drich. Your view about the possibility that nonChristians might be saved is very similar to what I read from the majority of Catholics on the forum of Catholic Answers. It is also why the curremt pope's views aren't as unusual for many regular Catholics as the media seems to believe.

On that same forum, Catholics and Protestants went round and round using bible verses to justify their positions. Whenever anyone posted a bare minimum thread as to the requirements for salvation, the Catholics always agreed with the Protestants.

Although your post pretty much lines up what I was taught, unless Christians hold sold some sort of council or votes for someone to talk for Christianity, you are still left with your interpretation of the bible. Mormons feverently believe they interpret the bible correctly also

(January 14, 2015 at 8:55 am)ManMachine Wrote:

(January 14, 2015 at 12:23 am)Drich Wrote: I have been asked this question so many different times in my last two threads I think it should be posted once and for all.

It's real simple.

All canonical Jesus Christ centered religions are good.

Why?

Attonement.

The same attonement that is offered to us when we willfully sin is also offered when we are trying to love God with all of our heart, mind, spirit, and strength.

So this beggs the question who is right? Which version of Christianity is correct? None are. The thing is.. We don't have to be.

So what's the trick? One must have the attonement offered by Christ. According to Paul to his letter to the Galations, this 'gospel' is the canonical/biblical Gospel. All other 'new gospels' are false.

Therefore the only ones that fall under the Christian 'freedom of religion' are those who know and follow the Jesus/gospel found in the canonical scriptures.

Jesus didn't write any gospels... come to think of it he didn't actually commit anything to writing... how strange?

MM

for who? At the time only the wealthy or those in the preisthood could read or write, as writting materials were costly. Jesus was the son of a laborer/carpenter. He may not have had access to these materials till later in life.

---

(January 14, 2015 at 8:57 am)Nope Wrote: I am glad you answered, drich. Your view about the possibility that nonChristians might be saved is very similar to what I read from the majority of Catholics on the forum of Catholic Answers. It is also why the curremt pope's views aren't as unusual for many regular Catholics as the media seems to believe.

On that same forum, Catholics and Protestants went round and round using bible verses to justify their positions. Whenever anyone posted a bare minimum thread as to the requirements for salvation, the Catholics always agreed with the Protestants.

Although your post pretty much lines up what I was taught, unless Christians hold sold some sort of council or votes for someone to talk for Christianity, you are still left with your interpretation of the bible. Mormons feverently believe they interpret the bible correctly also

To have one unified voice for the Church is the Job of Christ. Not some consule. So what has Christ told us? "Whatever we bind on Earth will be Bound in Heaven, and whatever we loose on Earth will be loosed in Heaven." Meaning the rules we follow in our Canonical Jesus Christ centered religions is what Christ will utlimatly judge us by.

Actually they don't believe in the bible, because it has been far too corupt over time.. They believe the bible should read like the book of mormon, and the subsequent books of doctrine. The fact that it doesnt means the bible is in error. That is why when ever the book of mormon and the bible conflicts the book of mormon is followed.

(January 14, 2015 at 12:23 am)Drich Wrote: So what's the trick? One must have the attonement offered by Christ. According to Paul to his letter to the Galations, this 'gospel' is the canonical/biblical Gospel. All other 'new gospels' are false..

Paul could not possibly have written anything regarding the Biblical canon, since the canon did not exist until at least a century (more like two) after Paul's death.

It is complete idiocy to claim that any New Testament writing which references "the scriptures" is talking about anything other than the Jewish scriptures, aka the Old Testament. That would be like someone in a 1950's TV show talking about "all the shows on TV," and you concluding that they mean stuff like The Walking Dead and Dr. Who.

Yet this sort of ignorant blather is precisely what Christians - even supposedly educated ones, who should know better - say all the time. And you wonder why we find you to be less than observant and intelligent.

(January 14, 2015 at 8:25 am)robvalue Wrote: Making up for being born?

I'd say that's generally a good idea, but that's between my mum and me.

(January 14, 2015 at 8:57 am)Nope Wrote: you are still left with your interpretation of the bible. Mormons feverently believe they interpret the bible correctly also

Of course. The Mormons and many others.

Interesting about the Catholic forum/ good to hear.

(January 14, 2015 at 9:43 am)Davka Wrote: Paul could not possibly have written anything regarding the Biblical canon, since the canon did not exist until at least a century (more like two) after Paul's death.

Paul wrote about the gospel he personally taught (The gospel of Luke) what he personally taught was written down (by Luke) and was cannonized.

Paul Specifically blasted/rebuked the Church at Galicia for following another 'gospel' than the one he taught.
Gal1:6 A short time ago God chose you to follow him. He chose you through his grace that came through Christ. But now I am amazed that you are already turning away and believing something different from the Good News we told you. 7 There is no other message that is the Good News, but some people are confusing you. They want to change the Good News about Christ. 8 We told you the true Good News message. So anyone who tells you a different message should be condemned—even if it’s one of us or even an angel from heaven! 9 I said this before. Now I say it again: You have already accepted the Good News. Anyone who tells you another way to be saved should be condemned!

Quote:It is complete idiocy to claim that any New Testament writing which references "the scriptures" is talking about anything other than the Jewish scriptures, aka the Old Testament. That would be like someone in a 1950's TV show talking about "all the shows on TV," and you concluding that they mean stuff like The Walking Dead and Dr. Who.

Yet this sort of ignorant blather is precisely what Christians - even supposedly educated ones, who should know better - say all the time. And you wonder why we find you to be less than observant and intelligent.

Oi-vey...

The word for scripture in the greek simply means writtings. The OT did not contain the writtings about Christ, salvation/The Gospel Paul is referencing. Therefore he is referencing the letters he himself has written. Those same letters became biblical cannon hence the term 'scripture' in the english.

(January 14, 2015 at 9:53 am)Drich Wrote:

(January 14, 2015 at 9:43 am)Davka Wrote: Paul could not possibly have written anything regarding the Biblical canon, since the canon did not exist until at least a century (more like two) after Paul's death.

Paul wrote about the gospel he personally taught (The gospel of Luke) what he personally taught was written down (by Luke) and was cannonized.

Paul Specifically blasted/rebuked the Church at Galicia for following another 'gospel' than the one he taught.
Gal1:6 A short time ago God chose you to follow him. He chose you through his grace that came through Christ. But now I am amazed that you are already turning away and believing something different from the Good News we told you. 7 There is no other message that is the Good News, but some people are confusing you. They want to change the Good News about Christ. 8 We told you the true Good News message. So anyone who tells you a different message should be condemned—even if it’s one of us or even an angel from heaven! 9 I said this before. Now I say it again: You have already accepted the Good News. Anyone who tells you another way to be saved should be condemned!

Quote:It is complete idiocy to claim that any New Testament writing which references "the scriptures" is talking about anything other than the Jewish scriptures, aka the Old Testament. That would be like someone in a 1950's TV show talking about "all the shows on TV," and you concluding that they mean stuff like The Walking Dead and Dr. Who.

Yet this sort of ignorant blather is precisely what Christians - even supposedly educated ones, who should know better - say all the time. And you wonder why we find you to be less than observant and intelligent.

Oi-vey...

The word for scripture in the greek simply means writtings. The OT did not contain the writtings about Christ, salvation/The Gospel Paul is referencing. Therefore he is referencing the letters he himself has written. Those same letters became biblical cannon hence the term 'scripture' in the english.

Way to completely miss the point! Paul's letters were canonized long after his death, therefore he could not possibly reference the 'canon of scripture.'

As to your claim that Paul was talking about his own writings - there is not enough facepalm in the world. No Jew (and Paul was nothing if not a good Jew) in 1st-century Palestine would have referred to Holy Scripture and meant anything other than the Hebrew Ketuvim. Your ignorance is appalling.

Oh, and learn to spell "oy." Nu, nu, nu.

(January 14, 2015 at 12:23 am)Drich Wrote: I have been asked this question so many different times in my last two threads I think it should be posted once and for all.

It's real simple.

Can you really burden the responsibility to give such specific advice how people avoid going to Hell? I mean, are you really sure that you're not missing some technical detail and sending droves to eternal damnation?

I suspect none of the 7th Day Adventists get to go to heaven because they worship on the wrong day of the week.

Or, did I get that backwards, and it is everybody else ??

Well, somebody is fucked whichever way turns out to be right . . .