(January 19, 2015 at 9:40 am)Drich Wrote: So just because I call myself an Atheist doesn't make me one if I don't follow the rules of Atheism?

Atheism doesn't have rules. It's not a dogma one adheres to with rules and a social club that meets three times a week.

(January 19, 2015 at 9:55 am)Strider Wrote:

(January 19, 2015 at 9:40 am)Drich Wrote: So just because I call myself an Atheist doesn't make me one if I don't follow the rules of Atheism?

Atheism doesn't have rules. It's not a dogma one adheres to with rules and a social club that meets three times a week.

So i can believe in God and be an atheist?

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or would that be breaking a/the rule?

(January 19, 2015 at 10:43 am)Drich Wrote:

(January 19, 2015 at 9:55 am)Strider Wrote: Atheism doesn't have rules. It's not a dogma one adheres to with rules and a social club that meets three times a week.

So i can believe in God and be an atheist?

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or would that be breaking a/the rule?

Well your atheist to the rest of the gods other believe in anyways.

(January 19, 2015 at 10:43 am)Drich Wrote:

(January 19, 2015 at 9:55 am)Strider Wrote: Atheism doesn't have rules. It's not a dogma one adheres to with rules and a social club that meets three times a week.

So i can believe in God and be an atheist?

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or would that be breaking a/the rule?

Thought this was already answered? You can believe in whatever you want, whilst calling yourself whatever you want. We're not going to lose any sleep. The only thing you might notice is the difference between what you call you, and what we call you. Fool.

(January 19, 2015 at 12:59 pm)Spooky Wrote:

(January 19, 2015 at 10:43 am)Drich Wrote: So i can believe in God and be an atheist?

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or would that be breaking a/the rule?

Thought this was already answered? You can believe in whatever you want, whilst calling yourself whatever you want. We're not going to lose any sleep. The only thing you might notice is the difference between what you call you, and what we call you. Fool.

If I am not accepted as an atheist if I call myself 'atheist', isn't that the samething I was doing when I identified None canonical Christ centered religions as non-Christian?

(January 19, 2015 at 9:40 am)Drich Wrote:

(January 18, 2015 at 9:06 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Whatever is most convenient to you at the time.

which is what as you understand it?

Same as above: your criteria change depending on whatever's most convenient for the argument you're making at the time. Sometimes it's just believing in Jesus and atonement, at others it's performing or abstaining from a set of actions, but simultaneously True Christianity is a faith based proposition, not a works based one. Sin apparently doesn't automatically disqualify you from the religion, but then somehow there's a threshold where it does, but only for criminals above and beyond the limit that you've set despite the fact that it doesn't appear in the bible at all. Oh, but let's not forget that slavery and murder and whatnot are okay so long as god does it, so for some reason the line for what makes one a True Christian or not doesn't apply for everyone, only who Drich decides it does...

Your criteria aren't something I can define because they aren't something you can define. It's not a position you hold, it's a defense mechanism you trot out when you need it, as even a short trip through positions you've espoused in the past shows. When you factor in the complete lack of evidence or justification you bring to the table to show that your beliefs are accurate, you'll have to excuse me if I don't take your idea of who is and isn't a true christian seriously.

Quote:So just because I call myself an Atheist doesn't make me one if I don't follow the rules of Atheism?

There are no rules of atheism. There is, however, a definition of atheism, which requires that one not believe in gods. We need definitions, because they're important for knowing what words mean; if we didn't have them, we wouldn't be talking. But a definition is not the same as a rule, it's a simple fact of what the concept describes; you can't be an atheist and believe in god for the same reason red can't be blue. It's a simple upholding of the law of non-contradiction; something can't be itself and not itself at the same time, so if you append the opposite of the definition of atheism to your own label of atheism, you are necessarily in contradiction. You also can't be a morbidly obese skinny person, that doesn't mean that being skinny is some kind of exclusive club with rules, it's just a component of how our language works.

Meanwhile, before you fart something out about the definition of "christian," I'd remind you again of the thousands of denominations, and your complete failure to provide for the accuracy of your specific one. I know obtuse, obfuscatory faux-idiocy is your stock in trade, but let's put it aside and actually have the conversation without you circling around the same obviously pointless ideas, again.

(January 12, 2015 at 3:32 pm)Drich Wrote: You all have sucessfully blurred the lines of belief enough for me to call myself an atheist! You all have convinced me with your endless arguements that despite what 'rule' a given affiliation may have they mean little to nothing compared to what a person 'feels' or claims for himself.

So... I feel like I have spent enough time around atheists to identify myself as one by proxcimity (Not by core belief) But as you all say core belief is just a formality. Who are any of you to say I am not an atheist if i say that I am?

So from now on I wish to be identified as a God loving Atheist!


...That is unless you all can conceed that there are indeed rules to being affiliated with a given group, other than a verbal proclaimation stating that one is indeed apart of said group.

Took you 14 pages just to get around to finally pulling back the lever on the point of this trollpost from page 1 Drich? Enjoying your atheism, btw (bet it's lonely in your head all of a sudden)?

(January 19, 2015 at 2:10 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Same as above: your criteria change depending on whatever's most convenient for the argument you're making at the time. Sometimes it's just believing in Jesus and atonement, at others it's performing or abstaining from a set of actions, but simultaneously True Christianity is a faith based proposition, not a works based one.

It is just belief, but as Christ says, belief begets works... It is not the works that save but the belief, but as James tells us Faith without works is dead. Our works are the 'fruit' or proof of who we are and what we believe.

Can someone mirror a 'fruit producing Christian' and not know Christ?/Not be counted among the saved? Absolutly! again the parable of the wise and foolish builders tell us this.

When asked it may seem like I am siding with on or the other, but I am doing is speaking to an indivisuals particular beliefs that it is one or the other and I am working to balance their understanding with the other side of the coin.

Quote: Sin apparently doesn't automatically disqualify you from the religion, but then somehow there's a threshold where it does, but only for criminals above and beyond the limit that you've set despite the fact that it doesn't appear in the bible at all.

The threshold is very simple to grasp. Before one can have forgiveness one (per Paul, and the book of galations) must follow the Gospel as He outlines it. If one does not follow the teaching of the Canonical version of Jesus then He is not under the attonement offered by the Canonical Christ.

Which means if one does follow the canonical Christ then he will have forgiveness in his religious efforts. If he does not follow the biblical version of Jesus then his religious efforts will yeild the same as unforgiven sin. Why? Because NONE OF US are 100% correct in our various versions of Christianity, but through the attonement offered by Christ all of us can be.

Quote:Oh, but let's not forget that slavery

If slavery is not Ok then then you have alot to answer for, as i pointed out modern life is built on the backs of slaves.

Quote:and murder

Killing and Murder, what are the differences? Murder is an unsanction taking of human life. you know kinda like abortion. While killing is indeed a sanction taking of human life. Like Hunting down the C.Hebdo murders and killing them.

Quote:and whatnot are okay so long as god does it,

Because again morality is man's joke version of right and wrong. It is ok for man to lift the bans on say slavery and murder if he renames the act. "Sweat shop/Migrant workers" or "Abortion/Planned parenthood" which is the same thing as slavery and murder as the net result is the exact same! But for some hypocritical reason when God did these things 4 or 5 thousand years ago He can not be forgiven?

Know It is the same measure that you use to judge God, that He will to judge you... If an illiterate nobody like me can point out slavery and murder in this soceity, how is it to you think you can sneak this by an all knowing God?

Quote:so for some reason the line for what makes one a True Christian or not doesn't apply for everyone, only who Drich decides it does...

Which means 10's of thousands of different religious groups. Not just one.

Quote:Your criteria aren't something I can define because they aren't something you can define.

Oppps I just did it again! (defined my beliefs.)

Quote:It's not a position you hold, it's a defense mechanism you trot out when you need it, as even a short trip through positions you've espoused in the past shows.

Wishful near sighted thinking my friend. The continueity I have provided to you has been consistant here on this website since day one. Some of you see it, other's can't because you have your heads burried in your 'positions' so deeply you will never see past your own beliefs.

Quote:When you factor in the complete lack of evidence or justification you bring to the table to show that your beliefs are accurate, you'll have to excuse me if I don't take your idea of who is and isn't a true christian seriously.

What in your minds eye is considered to be evidence or justification? I was recently repermanded by a mod for posting too many 'unsolicited' bible verses.

Quote:There are no rules of atheism. There is, however, a definition of atheism, which requires that one not believe in gods. We need definitions, because they're important for knowing what words mean; if we didn't have them, we wouldn't be talking. But a definition is not the same as a rule, it's a simple fact of what the concept describes; you can't be an atheist and believe in god for the same reason red can't be blue. It's a simple upholding of the law of non-contradiction; something can't be itself and not itself at the same time, so if you append the opposite of the definition of atheism to your own label of atheism, you are necessarily in contradiction. You also can't be a morbidly obese skinny person, that doesn't mean that being skinny is some kind of exclusive club with rules, it's just a component of how our language works.

Indeed being skinny does have rules... or do i really need to explain how caloric intake works?

Quote:Meanwhile, before you fart something out about the definition of "christian," I'd remind you again of the thousands of denominations, and your complete failure to provide for the accuracy of your specific one. I know obtuse, obfuscatory faux-idiocy is your stock in trade, but let's put it aside and actually have the conversation without you circling around the same obviously pointless ideas, again.

ok lets try this:
The Body of Christ

12 A person has only one body, but it has many parts. Yes, there are many parts, but all those parts are still just one body. Christ is like that too. 13 Some of us are Jews and some of us are not; some of us are slaves and some of us are free. But we were all baptized to become one body through one Spirit. And we were all given[a] the one Spirit.

14 And a person’s body has more than one part. It has many parts. 15 The foot might say, “I am not a hand, so I don’t belong to the body.” But saying this would not stop the foot from being a part of the body. 16 The ear might say, “I am not an eye, so I don’t belong to the body.” But saying this would not make the ear stop being a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, it would not be able to hear. If the whole body were an ear, it would not be able to smell anything. 18-19 If each part of the body were the same part, there would be no body. But as it is, God put the parts in the body as he wanted them. He made a place for each one. 20 So there are many parts, but only one body.

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the foot, “I don’t need you!” 22 No, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are actually very important. 23 And the parts that we think are not worth very much are the parts we give the most care to. And we give special care to the parts of the body that we don’t want to show. 24 The more beautiful parts don’t need this special care. But God put the body together and gave more honor to the parts that need it. 25 God did this so that our body would not be divided. God wanted the different parts to care the same for each other. 26 If one part of the body suffers, then all the other parts suffer with it. Or if one part is honored, then all the other parts share its honor.

27 All of you together are the body of Christ. Each one of you is a part of that body. 28 And in the church God has given a place first to apostles, second to prophets, and third to teachers. Then God has given a place to those who do miracles, those who have gifts of healing, those who can help others, those who are able to lead, and those who can speak in different kinds of languages. 29 Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers. Not all do miracles. 30 Not all have gifts of healing. Not all speak in different kinds of languages. Not all interpret those languages. 31 Continue to give your attention to the spiritual gifts you consider to be the greatest. But now I want to point out a way of life that is even greater.


Christ does not see different denominations. He sees one united 'Body.' As Paul says each body has many parts with different functions, all are needed to cover the different functions as the body of Christ.

[/quote]

"Drich says...."

Look, in case this totally flew over your head. What "drich says" isn't being accepted as an authority of any kind on the matter, which is why you find yourself in the predicament that you're in. No amount of saying -anything- will make Esq or myself (or, likely, anyone here) accept that you are the arbitrator of True Christianity™. Got it? Constant trollposts won't help either - unless the aim is to reduce your already dismal credibility with the audience you seek to sway.