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RE: Slavery and eating animals
February 2, 2015 at 1:40 pm
(This post was last modified: February 2, 2015 at 2:01 pm by Alex K.)
Esquilax, that is a non sequitur. A naturalistic fallacy seems beneath you.
Or I completely misunderstand.
I'm not trying to convince you that meat eating is immoral, the reasoning just seems knee jerky.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Slavery and eating animals
February 2, 2015 at 1:52 pm
(This post was last modified: February 2, 2015 at 1:54 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 2, 2015 at 1:10 pm)robvalue Wrote: I think the whole debate boils down to what exactly can an animal feel, -if so, then the whole "issue" can be sidestep by sedation or captive bolt (which is actually what we do - not really for the benefit of the animal, mind you, more to preserve the quality of the product..lol). Problem solved, enjoy your steak.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Slavery and eating animals
February 2, 2015 at 2:04 pm
(This post was last modified: February 2, 2015 at 2:06 pm by robvalue.)
Yes, I get everything I need from vegan sources. I've been vegan for some 15 years and I'm pretty sure I'm not dead  They can synthesise everything the body needs. So no, you don't need animal sources anymore.
One of the similarities between eating meat and religion is it brings out some of the very worst arguments from otherwise rational people. I've heard every lame "argument" under the sun, always in an aggressive pre emptive strike against me. Very much like what happens when someone finds out you're atheist and theists go on the offense with bullshit arguments. Maybe I'll do my thread after all.
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RE: Slavery and eating animals
February 2, 2015 at 2:06 pm
(This post was last modified: February 2, 2015 at 2:06 pm by Faith No More.)
(February 2, 2015 at 1:52 pm)Rhythm Wrote: -if so, then the whole "issue" can be sidestep by sedation or captive bolt (which is actually what we do - not really for the benefit of the animal, mind you, more to preserve the quality of the product..lol). Problem solved, enjoy your steak.
It's not what the animal can feel at the time of death that matters but what the animal can experience as a conscious entity. I mean, how much of what we morally value in our consciousness - which is the depth and level of our sensory experience - can an animal actually experience itself?
It's certainly not anywhere near what we humans experience, so just how much weight am I to give their experiences when trying to determining whether it is moral to eat them?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Slavery and eating animals
February 2, 2015 at 2:07 pm
(This post was last modified: February 2, 2015 at 2:10 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
@ Rob, You get your B12 from bacteria (same as I do) though the method of delivery is dissimilar. You don't think there's a problem with farming bacteria, I don't think there's a problem with farming cows (which contain the b12 because of the same bacteria). We probably have similar justifications for both, eh?
@FNM, by the time I eat an animal, it isn't experiencing a damned thing....lol (my veggie eating habits would present a trickier problem on those grounds - if you ask me). The eating is a non-issue from that starting point, don't you think?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Slavery and eating animals
February 2, 2015 at 2:10 pm
(This post was last modified: February 2, 2015 at 2:11 pm by robvalue.)
If you are equating bacteria with cows then yes, it's the same. But the suffering a cow is capable of is monumental compared to bacteria. So I don't think they are comparable.
I try and minimize the harm I do overall.
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RE: Slavery and eating animals
February 2, 2015 at 2:12 pm
(This post was last modified: February 2, 2015 at 2:16 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Right, but - if the idea is that the bacteria doesn't suffer so it's okay.....then so long as the cow doesn't suffer...it's.....[fill in the blank].....?
(I think we all understand, and it's certainly written into our laws - that cows are to be given greater consideration for their state of mind than bacteria - so I;m not attempting to equate them, only equating a situation, the justifications for or arguments against, it;s likely that you and I both are against factory farming of cattle but for factory farming of bacteria - I did that once, btw, at a refit Coors brewing plant. We made synth DHA and ARA, for baby formula...lol. Definitely wouldn't have felt comfortable producing beef at that place, with that equipment.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Slavery and eating animals
February 2, 2015 at 2:12 pm
No. Cows suffer a huge amount in the farming process, I'm not talking about their death. Most people have no idea what goes on, it's a well kept secret sadly.
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RE: Slavery and eating animals
February 2, 2015 at 2:13 pm
(This post was last modified: February 2, 2015 at 2:16 pm by Faith No More.)
The actual act of eating is a non-issue, sure, but I'm talking about what the animal experiences in its lifetime because of the fact that it will eventually end up in my belly, and should I take into consideration that that animal's experiences are ended prematurely due to the fact that I will be enjoying it in a taco later?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Slavery and eating animals
February 2, 2015 at 2:16 pm
If you object to feed lots then don't buy that beef. I eat cows that are grass fed, no feed lot. I eat deer. No feed lot.
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