I appreciate your words GC

"First of all you shouldn't have allow their actions to effect your beliefs you had, Christianity is a personal relationship with God and I assure you God's hand is not in the abuse you've endured."

I just wanted to say that I lived with these people and some pretty awful things they did to me in the name of god for 23ish years. I never let their actions influence my faith. It was more a lack of god that got me really studying the bible, a lack of good in the bible that got me really disliking Christianity, and a lot of rational thinking, research, and self reflection that helped me finally let go of the idea that god was a real thing. It's been really good for my mental health.

Losty something I forgot to mention - The fact you hate the belief but not the believer doesn't mean you have to endure abuse and pure stupidity in the name of religion and abstain from calling it out. When I see someone doing something terrible because god said so I always call them out, on the internet and in real life. If religious people engage in ridiculous behaviour they deserve to be ridiculed and criticized.

I think you can hate the believer if she/he is clearly a "bad" person - When a white supremacist spits out bullshit I don't merely hate the ideology, I hate him/her for being such a bigoted asshole. I don't see why we shouldn't do the same with Christians - Yes Christianity is not the same as racial supremacism, but it's an ideology that can be used with prejudiced intent, particularly against women, LGBT, apostates, non-believers, other theists, etc

(February 19, 2015 at 1:36 am)Losty Wrote: Since I de-converted from Christianity, I kind of adapted my "hate the sin, not the sinner" ideals. I have been through some really terrible things at the hands of religious people, in the name of god, and justified by the religion itself.

I have been thinking a lot about personal responsibility, and versus impaired judgement due to childhood indoctrination.

I'm really struggling trying to find a cross over point. When do stop blaming the religion for a person's wrong doings and make take responsibility of their own actions. When is it okay to hate the believer for their beliefs?

Hi Losty: BTW love the sinner/hate the sin came from Gandhi.
we are not supposed to waste our energy hating anything;
the only "hate" means to "separate" and not entangle ourselves in it.

It is okay to hate when it is part of the natural grief process.
you have to be able to FORGIVE the fact we can't help going through
anger, rejection or hatred, or it's even harder to get past it.

Forgive it first, then you can work through the resentment.
in the end any attached emotion needs to be let go to restore
open minds and not let this bias our judgment. either towards
situations or people.

I'm horrible at the anger stage and don't handle being mad very well.
What helps me speed up that stage is
feeling "compassion or sorrow" for the situation, not anger.
I tend to operate better from that mindset, so I use them to offset each other.

I treat the stages like fire and water.
sometimes we need anger to burn away the impure thoughts.
sometimes we need sadness and tears to wash them away like a river.

so when the fiery anger gets too much, turn on the water to douse it.
when the depression gets so bad you are drowning in self pity,
turn up the fire and get the wet out.

no matter what stage you are in USE that to work through the process of getting rid of negative thoughts and memories.

it's still forgiveness and healing whether you use ideas from Christianity or Buddhism or a mix of both as most people do in some combination.

(February 19, 2015 at 2:05 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(February 19, 2015 at 1:58 pm)Godschild Wrote:

---

No you haven't, this was to be your post, all I did was try and give a little advice and meant to do anything more. These yahoos always have to jump in and make things I say to be something they dislike and if they can't do so they will criticize my spelling or grammar, anything to get a punch in, I'll apologize for them. they would rather try and bring out all the negative about me and disregard the OP all the time. They're insensitive twits who need to grow up, they can not leave well enough alone. I apologize to you for even answering these inconsiderate butts. Yes I'm upset, why, because they always think more about their self promotion than the needs of others, Losty just watch and see all their negative responses to this instead of doing the right thing and apologize to you. Again I'm sorry and maybe the next time you post something I'll have enough sense to give advice through a PM.

Love, GC

---

No we do not control you, we have no physical way of controlling your emotions, only you control your emotions. Now having been bullied as a kid, it would be stupid for you to assume that means others cannot affect your responses. What you can do is be aware of how you react yourself and that helps you deal with others better.

No one brings out the bad in you. You allow yourself to get worked up. We all get worked up at points in our lives over a multitude of issues. Your reaction is a human behavior. But only you control how you respond to others.

I'm mad because people took off on me and forgot the important thing "Losty," actually until today I didn't understand the her user name, I do now. You guys don't bother me often and most of the time when you do I do not respond. This has nothing to do with me, it's about forgetting the one that has a need.

GC

(February 19, 2015 at 3:49 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Losty something I forgot to mention - The fact you hate the belief but not the believer doesn't mean you have to endure abuse and pure stupidity in the name of religion and abstain from calling it out. When I see someone doing something terrible because god said so I always call them out, on the internet and in real life. If religious people engage in ridiculous behaviour they deserve to be ridiculed and criticized.

I think you can hate the believer if she/he is clearly a "bad" person - When a white supremacist spits out bullshit I don't merely hate the ideology, I hate him/her for being such a bigoted asshole. I don't see why we shouldn't do the same with Christians - Yes Christianity is not the same as racial supremacism, but it's an ideology that can be used with prejudiced intent, particularly against women, LGBT, apostates, non-believers, other theists, etc

I agree, the negative emotions don't need to be attached
to actively address and correct the wrongs.

In fact, I find it helps with being more effective
if there AREN'T these negative attachments in the way.
Letting that go frees the mind so more wisdom and insights,
and rational steps can be taken and communicated toward solutions.

the emotions often obstruct the communication and relations
making it harder to correct the problem, especially when both sides
get defensive. easier not to go there, and forgiveness is the one thing that diffuses instead of escalating the issues.

---

(February 19, 2015 at 4:00 pm)Godschild Wrote: I'm mad because people took off on me and forgot the important thing "Losty," actually until today I didn't understand the her user name, I do now. You guys don't bother me often and most of the time when you do I do not respond. This has nothing to do with me, it's about forgetting the one that has a need.

GC

Hi Godschild I am also touched that you have more compassion than you know how to express sometimes. [I am probably worse at having to deal with things like this, as your posts above still sound better than what I just went through on another site. I could not help but make pointed remarks, at why I wasn't getting instructions how to correct the problems. Which of course got me banned by Mods who weren't trying to work with me like the ones here who do.]

As for Losty I see that you are worried about losing or turning from that relationship with God through Christ.

May I assure you that the connection is never lost, but new things have arisen in awareness to sort out, and that connection IS being used to sort through those. Losty is just using the secular part of the mind to reason through it, but both the heart and mind are part of the same conscience where Christ connects us collectively.

Forgiveness and getting rid of fear, clears off obstructions blocking that natural relationship from shining through. It's still there, but it is being used to sort through thoughts and work through a lot of issues.

So if you continue what you are doing, and support with full loving grace, then that is still received. Only the fear blocks it, so please let your love be greater than that fear, and it is cast out of the way.

Nothing can come between us and the love of God.
Any fear is overcome by perfect love.
Any unforgiveness cannot withstand in the presence of healing grace.

So GC i join with you in supporting that environment of complete submersion and reception of loving grace that heals all wounds
and breaks down any barriers in the way.

May God richly bless you and give
you even more support, wisdom and natural faith
to feel and bring out God's presence in all things,
all people, all relations that connect you with others in life.

May it grow and multiply in abundance before your eyes
where you know you can be perfectly still, and know that God is here.

Love, Emily

(February 19, 2015 at 4:04 pm)emilynghiem Wrote:

(February 19, 2015 at 4:00 pm)Godschild Wrote:

---

I'm mad because people took off on me and forgot the important thing "Losty," actually until today I didn't understand the her user name, I do now. You guys don't bother me often and most of the time when you do I do not respond. This has nothing to do with me, it's about forgetting the one that has a need.

GC

---

Hi Godschild I am also touched that you have more compassion than you know how to express sometimes. [I am probably worse at having to deal with things like this, as your posts above still sound better than what I just went through on another site. I could not help but make pointed remarks, at why I wasn't getting instructions how to correct the problems. Which of course got me banned by Mods who weren't trying to work with me like the ones here who do.]

As for Losty I see that you are worried about losing or turning from that relationship with God through Christ.

May I assure you that the connection is never lost, but new things have arisen in awareness to sort out, and that connection IS being used to sort through those. Losty is just using the secular part of the mind to reason through it, but both the heart and mind are part of the same conscience where Christ connects us collectively.

Forgiveness and getting rid of fear, clears off obstructions blocking that natural relationship from shining through. It's still there, but it is being used to sort through thoughts and work through a lot of issues.

So if you continue what you are doing, and support with full loving grace, then that is still received. Only the fear blocks it, so please let your love be greater than that fear, and it is cast out of the way.

Nothing can come between us and the love of God.
Any fear is overcome by perfect love.
Any unforgiveness cannot withstand in the presence of healing grace.

So GC i join with you in supporting that environment of complete submersion and reception of loving grace that heals all wounds
and breaks down any barriers in the way.

May God richly bless you and give
you even more support, wisdom and natural faith
to feel and bring out God's presence in all things,
all people, all relations that connect you with others in life.

May it grow and multiply in abundance before your eyes
where you know you can be perfectly still, and know that God is here.

Love, Emily

Thank you, it's very kind of you to say this. I have trouble with writing what I feel, I have problems with writing period. I would much rather have a face to face conversation, I like to see peoples eyes, they tell much about a person, things they want say. Helping others is my God given gift, I can be soft when it's needed and hard when it's required, you know different people need different treatments. In the end it's all about helping people get back on track, whether I help them with a problem around there home or a mental or spiritual problem, God's been good to me by allowing me to be involved with others in needs, those whom I help are a great blessing in my life. Again thank you.

Love, GC

"As for Losty I see that you are worried about losing or turning from that relationship with God through Christ.

May I assure you that the connection is never lost, but new things have arisen in awareness to sort out, and that connection IS being used to sort through those. Losty is just using the secular part of the mind to reason through it, but both the heart and mind are part of the same conscience where Christ connects us collectively."

I hate to be rude but this is disgusting to me. I had to resist the urge to vomit. There was never a connection. The delusion was lifted.
I have so many things to say but I don't really see the point and it'd just be me over sharing again.

(February 19, 2015 at 5:22 pm)Losty Wrote: "As for Losty I see that you are worried about losing or turning from that relationship with God through Christ.

May I assure you that the connection is never lost, but new things have arisen in awareness to sort out, and that connection IS being used to sort through those. Losty is just using the secular part of the mind to reason through it, but both the heart and mind are part of the same conscience where Christ connects us collectively."

I hate to be rude but this is disgusting to me. I had to resist the urge to vomit. There was never a connection. The delusion was lifted.
I have so many things to say but I don't really see the point and it'd just be me over sharing again.

Sorry Losty what I meant is not against anything you describe above here ^

I'm talking about the true and natural connection we all have as human beings that exists by conscience.

If you are talking about false delusions and religious conditions marring and masking that, YES I AGREE with you that is indeed damaging and screwing with the natural connection.

We are naturally made as mind body and spirit.
So where religion is abused to throw off that natural balance
I AGREE with you that is harmful and even kills people.

Next to what you say above, which I consider a KIND way of
saying it, I went BALLISTIC when I found out what religion
had done to totally destroy the real truth beyond recognition.

I know worse what you mean, and certainly never meant to
hurt or offend you. I appreciate your saying it nicely
because what I had to say would get me locked up.

My apologies Losty, that is not what I meant and I'm sorry.

(February 19, 2015 at 4:04 pm)emilynghiem Wrote:

(February 19, 2015 at 3:49 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Losty something I forgot to mention - The fact you hate the belief but not the believer doesn't mean you have to endure abuse and pure stupidity in the name of religion and abstain from calling it out. When I see someone doing something terrible because god said so I always call them out, on the internet and in real life. If religious people engage in ridiculous behaviour they deserve to be ridiculed and criticized.

I think you can hate the believer if she/he is clearly a "bad" person - When a white supremacist spits out bullshit I don't merely hate the ideology, I hate him/her for being such a bigoted asshole. I don't see why we shouldn't do the same with Christians - Yes Christianity is not the same as racial supremacism, but it's an ideology that can be used with prejudiced intent, particularly against women, LGBT, apostates, non-believers, other theists, etc

I agree, the negative emotions don't need to be attached
to actively address and correct the wrongs.

In fact, I find it helps with being more effective
if there AREN'T these negative attachments in the way.
Letting that go frees the mind so more wisdom and insights,
and rational steps can be taken and communicated toward solutions.

the emotions often obstruct the communication and relations
making it harder to correct the problem, especially when both sides
get defensive. easier not to go there, and forgiveness is the one thing that diffuses instead of escalating the issues.

---

(February 19, 2015 at 4:00 pm)Godschild Wrote: I'm mad because people took off on me and forgot the important thing "Losty," actually until today I didn't understand the her user name, I do now. You guys don't bother me often and most of the time when you do I do not respond. This has nothing to do with me, it's about forgetting the one that has a need.

GC

Hi Godschild I am also touched that you have more compassion than you know how to express sometimes. [I am probably worse at having to deal with things like this, as your posts above still sound better than what I just went through on another site. I could not help but make pointed remarks, at why I wasn't getting instructions how to correct the problems. Which of course got me banned by Mods who weren't trying to work with me like the ones here who do.]

As for Losty I see that you are worried about losing or turning from that relationship with God through Christ.

May I assure you that the connection is never lost, but new things have arisen in awareness to sort out, and that connection IS being used to sort through those. Losty is just using the secular part of the mind to reason through it, but both the heart and mind are part of the same conscience where Christ connects us collectively.

Forgiveness and getting rid of fear, clears off obstructions blocking that natural relationship from shining through. It's still there, but it is being used to sort through thoughts and work through a lot of issues.

So if you continue what you are doing, and support with full loving grace, then that is still received. Only the fear blocks it, so please let your love be greater than that fear, and it is cast out of the way.

Nothing can come between us and the love of God.
Any fear is overcome by perfect love.
Any unforgiveness cannot withstand in the presence of healing grace.

So GC i join with you in supporting that environment of complete submersion and reception of loving grace that heals all wounds
and breaks down any barriers in the way.

May God richly bless you and give
you even more support, wisdom and natural faith
to feel and bring out God's presence in all things,
all people, all relations that connect you with others in life.

May it grow and multiply in abundance before your eyes
where you know you can be perfectly still, and know that God is here.

Love, Emily

Nothing can come between you and God? Really? Despite no evidence. Despite the overwhelming evidence that those claims were written by scientifically ignorant humans when they had no way of knowing what evidence was?

You think atheists cant have empathy for others without believing?

I know you may truly believe you are comforting GC but you are not helping anyone by perpetuating a naked assertion. If someone tells you the earth revolves around the sun you thank them for their correction. You dont fear being wrong.

The atheists here when we engage theists, not just here but anywhere, are telling a harsh truth. Yes it can be hard facing it, but we think better of our fellow humans in that they are capable of better logic than "poof" logic. Santa may bring kids comfort, but it is nothing to cling to as an adult

(February 19, 2015 at 6:13 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Nothing can come between you and God? Really? Despite no evidence. Despite the overwhelming evidence that those claims were written by scientifically ignorant humans when they had no way of knowing what evidence was?

They were a lot smarter than you might believe, want to tell me how they moved stones that no machine today can.

Quote:You think atheists cant have empathy for others without believing?

No one said that, what was said is that they over looked a need this time.

Quote:I know you may truly believe you are comforting GC but you are not helping anyone by perpetuating a naked assertion. If someone tells you the earth revolves around the sun you thank them for their correction. You dont fear being wrong.

What are you referring to?

Quote:The atheists here when we engage theists, not just here but anywhere, are telling a harsh truth. Yes it can be hard facing it, but we think better of our fellow humans in that they are capable of better logic than "poof" logic. Santa may bring kids comfort, but it is nothing to cling to as an adult

A harsh something, but not truth, no one has ever proven what I believe is not real and until you can your so called proof is only an opinion and nothing more.

GC

---

(February 19, 2015 at 5:22 pm)Losty Wrote: "As for Losty I see that you are worried about losing or turning from that relationship with God through Christ.

May I assure you that the connection is never lost, but new things have arisen in awareness to sort out, and that connection IS being used to sort through those. Losty is just using the secular part of the mind to reason through it, but both the heart and mind are part of the same conscience where Christ connects us collectively."

I hate to be rude but this is disgusting to me. I had to resist the urge to vomit. There was never a connection. The delusion was lifted.
I have so many things to say but I don't really see the point and it'd just be me over sharing again.

Losty, I hope I've said nothing to hurt you, if I have I apologize. Yes I'm always concerned when people leave or are pushed from Christ, if I were not what would the point be for me to have faith. There is always new life, but not if you start to hate, honestly I can't think of any worse way to have to live, I've seen it devour people.

GC