At least here in the United States. I live in Phoenix, Arizona which is dominated heavily by Catholics and Mormons and other Christian denominations. I had this really good friend who was Mormon, and we've been best friends since Freshman year. And just last November I told her I didn't believe in God and she got quite mad about it and said that she didn't want to be my friend anymore because of it. What's ironic is that her other excuse is that she only wanted to hang around people who believed in God because they're a better influence, but she's the one who goes to Vegas and drinks and grinds with random men at clubs.

It seems like all we really want is to just be treated equally and not like subhumans or second class. I read somewhere that an open atheist cannot run for office in this country. (Not 100% how true that is, but if someone knows anymore on this; please, let me know). I don't go around forcing my atheism on others. But apparently Christians somehow think they should be permitted to force their religious beliefs down everyone's throats through government and such. But if someone who's an atheist lets out a small little peep, they will demonized and publicly shammed for it. At least in the part of the country I live in.

This is just something I've never understood.

Now I do know that atheism is widely accepted in countries in Northern Europe.

Hiya, I'm very sorry to hear that. I can tell you that atheists can run for office in USA, probably everywhere, but at the very least most places (someone can clarify). There are laws saying they can't still, but those are overwritten by court rulings.

It is really sad for me when I hear of friendships being dependent on religious beliefs. I'm lucky that in England it's no big deal, I have no need to "come out", it's just not an issue. So that's why I'm here, because I know others are not so lucky. I know it's tough in USA. And even worse, in some muslim countries

I hope you can find more friends who will accept you for who you are. Damn straight, atheists just want to be given equal respect. I feel it will happen in USA, it's lagging behind europe but moving in the right direction.

I'm sorry about your friend but that's probably more about a specific individual than society as a whole. I've lived as an open Atheist in Utah and never had any problems, I just don't see what some Atheists seem to claim is persecution. Although this is not a call to be passive on important issues, I don't think Atheists should take a page from the Christian handbook and cry victim over every small slight.

Why is it hard for a Christian to be open in the east? Why is it hard for a Shiite to be open in Saudi Arabia. Why is it hard for gays to be open here or in the east?

I think you really need a check on reality. Yes it is difficult, but it is not the same as being arrested for being an atheist and getting lashes in Saudi Arabia. It is not as bad as being executed for being gay or being a girl wanting an education in the middle east.

I can say it has gotten better over 14 years. It was much harder before 2000 being an open atheist than it is now. But compared to back then atheists have a much bigger voice now.

Yes people still have problems, but any minority who is not part of the majority they live under is going to have problems no matter where in the world they live.

All 7 billion of us are both majorities and minorities depending on our geographical locations. Pluck yourself out of one spot, move to another spot and the rolls reverse.

Sure... there's always someone worse off than yourself, but that doesn't make what you're going through any easier.

I never made the experience of being treated as a second class human because of being an atheist. But I'm living in a country where 58 percent of the population identify as not at all religious and the president is openly agnostic.

I've never even made the experience of being asked about my religion or lack thereoff. It's simply not part of any discussion.

(February 19, 2015 at 5:31 pm)Ghost2282 Wrote: At least here in the United States. I live in Phoenix, Arizona which is dominated heavily by Catholics and Mormons and other Christian denominations. I had this really good friend who was Mormon, and we've been best friends since Freshman year. And just last November I told her I didn't believe in God and she got quite mad about it and said that she didn't want to be my friend anymore because of it. What's ironic is that her other excuse is that she only wanted to hang around people who believed in God because they're a better influence, but she's the one who goes to Vegas and drinks and grinds with random men at clubs.

It seems like all we really want is to just be treated equally and not like subhumans or second class. I read somewhere that an open atheist cannot run for office in this country. (Not 100% how true that is, but if someone knows anymore on this; please, let me know). I don't go around forcing my atheism on others. But apparently Christians somehow think they should be permitted to force their religious beliefs down everyone's throats through government and such. But if someone who's an atheist lets out a small little peep, they will demonized and publicly shammed for it. At least in the part of the country I live in.

This is just something I've never understood.

Now I do know that atheism is widely accepted in countries in Northern Europe.

Hi Ghost: America is going through this weird cultural phase of coming out of the closet about beliefs, and "treating them equally" where big FAILS are happening left and right.

Neutral is being open to either approach, theistic or nontheistic approach,
and/or some people operate better as agnostic leaning one way or the other.
Anything other than neutral is going to get political because the media and culture is so hyped up right now about that.

What gets people in trouble is assuming that if someone is theistic they are AGAINST nontheists, and if someone is nontheistic they are AGAINST theist beliefs.

Best position I'd recommend is not to reject or react to one more than the other.

If you can identify as Nontheistic, that is a bit more neutral sounding than being a- or anti- which implies without or against. Just being nontheistic means secular but isn't resisting rejecting or excluding something actively. It implies not personifying God as a figure, but still leaves it open that God can mean something else, just not a concrete person or thing.

I consider Buddhism to be nontheistic because Wisdom is another name for God. so it isn't anti-God it just doesn't Personify God as personal authority or creator figure. The Creation or Universe, Life or Nature can be names for God but in an impersonal form, and still be a nontheistic approach to Life that isn't anti-God.

(February 19, 2015 at 6:02 pm)robvalue Wrote: Sure... there's always someone worse off than yourself, but that doesn't make what you're going through any easier.

Oh I agree, I hate that as an economic argument from Republicans and Libertarians. "Other people have it worse, so accept your crappy pay and lower your standards to compete with third world countries".

Pain is pain, no one's pain is better or worse than anyone else's. I was putting things in perspective.

It is why I also argue that Jews cant hide behind the Holocaust because blacks and Native Americans went through the same types of oppression.

Atheist certainly are not widely accepted in the mainstream yet, and there is discrimination of course.

@Ghost2282, I've found that labeling as agnostic instead of atheist makes a big difference.

Since Christianity is hard to believe, most Christians strengthen their faith by surrounding themselves with people who seem to have more faith. It is hard for most Christians to imagine how anybody could truly be an atheist. They are inclined to think you are rejecting a God that you know exists. An agnostic gets a pass on that.

Never had any problems, but then I don't live in a theocracy like the USA