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The argument of "chance"
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rob,
and I'm arguing that you don't even get some kind of creator out of it for the usual reasons having to do with regress.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
Ah! Of course, yes I forgot that old chestnut.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum  (February 21, 2015 at 2:35 am)xr34p3rx Wrote: the argument where Christians pull a number out of their ass saying "what are the chances of a universe like this existing without a god" or something similar.The idea is really just to come up with numbers (using the "thin air" methodology) that imply that a particular occurrence is so unlikely as to be impossible. Once you make the case that it's impossible for, say, the Earth to have developed into a life-sustaining planet without a guiding hand, you have established the need for a guiding hand, and therefore begun building the case for god. As always, god could make such exercises moot by making its presence known. Her unwillingness to show her face has led to some amazing mental and philosophical gymnastics, which can occasionally provide a bit of amusement, if you can stop rolling your eyes long enough.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould  RE: The argument of "chance"
February 21, 2015 at 11:54 am
(This post was last modified: February 21, 2015 at 11:56 am by Dystopia.)
The argument of chance operates as a modified argument of the cosmological wishful thinking - The world is so perfect that the chance of god existing is high. What is the chance we would be here today, alive and breathing, with accessible living conditions and happy lives if it wasn't for god? Why does the earth exist and why is the universe so complex and fascinating? ---> This constitutes an argument from incredulity and is not valid, and it misses the point when you are arguing for a specific religion because even if we needed a god that argument doesn't prove if this god is the one.
A lot of what are the chances stems from ignorance regarding science and how the universe operates. Additionally this argument can be used in different circumstances: - What are the chances someone magically recovered from a deadly illness? It has to be a miracle? - What are the chances our lives are meaningless? It can't be! - My prayer worked, what are the chances of god no existing? He exists!
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
What are the chances that anyone should win the lottery? God.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal 
The big problem with the Argument from Big Numbers is that it doesn't even say anything: assuming we take the entirely manufactured numbers as real, the chance of this particular universe existing is exactly the same chance as any other variant universe existing, if it's represented at the same level of specificity as was used to come to the probability for this universe. There is no card in a deck of cards that has a higher chance of randomly being drawn than any other.
It literally just is "aren't you scared of this large number?!" and nothing else.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!  (February 21, 2015 at 2:43 am)robvalue Wrote: There is no reason to think the universe could have been anything other than what it is. Careful, Rob. Starting with that premise leads to God. (February 21, 2015 at 2:43 am)robvalue Wrote: Basically, there is nothing in mathematics that represents "God". True. Because God is why mathematics exists in the first place. (February 21, 2015 at 1:16 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: True. Because God is why mathematics exists in the first place. Oh look, Old King Assertion is here. 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
No, I created God and mathematics, then killed God.
Because I said so. (See above) Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum  |
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