(February 22, 2015 at 12:14 am)Wiggy Wrote: So many damaged and misinformed people here with regards to God and the bible. This must be therepitic for some to God bash. Fact is bible strongly suggests that God loves us. The greatest act of love is self sacrifice for someone. Jesus died for us. You cant accuse God of nothing at judgement day. God offered you eternal life and you refused. Yes there Iis ahell like there is life imprisonment for commiting murder. Reward and punishment is a part of life.

Like I've said in the OP, the 'Jesus died for you' thing is just a one big guilt trip. I see what you're doing and it won't work on me. You're right though, I won't be able to accuse god of anything, because there isn't one.
And I'd like to clarify I'm neither damaged nor misinformed. Where in my OP did I bash god? I pointed out the exploitations of organised religion.

(February 22, 2015 at 12:14 am)Wiggy Wrote: So many damaged and misinformed people here with regards to God and the bible. This must be therepitic for some to God bash. Fact is bible strongly suggests that God loves us. The greatest act of love is self sacrifice for someone. Jesus died for us. You cant accuse God of nothing at judgement day. God offered you eternal life and you refused. Yes there Iis ahell like there is life imprisonment for commiting murder. Reward and punishment is a part of life.

It seems like, in order for your argument for the existence of god to be effective, one has to already believe in god...

(February 21, 2015 at 5:57 am)Norman Humann Wrote: The very idea that you need to baptised before you're a human being is disgusting. We're god's perfect creation, but we're born sick? God is merciful and forgiving, but won't let you into his VIP club in the afterlife if you don't get water poured over your head?

Take the law gravity for instance, we're not confused when we toss something in to the air and it comes back down, neither are we confused when we see something behave according to the laws of physics, yet, your confused by the laws of nature?

The rules God has set spiritually, parallels the very same rules found in nature, and seeing how he is the creator of both, this shouldn't be surprising.

You brought up Baptism. Jesus stated that you had to be reborn in order to enter the kingdom of God, and that is accomplished through water baptism.

the number 3 represents perfection, in this case, water/blood/spirit

What happens when a child is born in the natural? The water breaks, then the blood, then the breath of life (spirit)

You must be born a child of God in the same manner, baptized in water, then the blood of Jesus atones for your sin, then you are given the holy spirit.

Quote:Luke 3
16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Likewise there shall be a new earth and guess what? It has to be born in the same manner.

It received it's water baptism through the flood, God himself spilled his blood upon it, finally it will receive it's baptism by fire.

Quote:2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Also we understand that in order for us to live something must die to provide sustenance, Likewise, in order for you to partake of eternal life, Jesus had to lay down his life.

The spiritual and natural realm abide by the same principles.

You just posted as if you were on a Christian forum, not an atheist one.

(February 22, 2015 at 6:49 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Take the law gravity for instance, we're not confused when we toss something in to the air and it comes back down, neither are we confused when we see something behave according to the laws of physics, yet, your confused by the laws of nature?

How is baptism a law of nature?

Quote:The rules God has set spiritually, parallels the very same rules found in nature, and seeing how he is the creator of both, this shouldn't be surprising.

Assertion.

Quote:You must be born a child of God in the same manner, baptized in water, then the blood of Jesus atones for your sin, then you are given the holy spirit.

What sin has an infant committed?

You're just preaching. In order for any of your claims to be valid, you need to believe in god in the first place.

(February 21, 2015 at 9:13 pm)professor Wrote: HN, how do I know? First the Word (the bible) and second - personal experience.
Over 40 years of both.
Just like trying to describe the taste of a fruit is impossible to convey to another- so is spiritual truth to one in darkness.

Why is it that prof and that other 'child of god' on this forum often cite their 'years of experience' as something the rest of us should acknowledge? I don't think I've noticed any atheists use the same argument during my time here.

And why, prof, do you think that it's impossible to describe to another? There's a very good and simple reason for that you know, if you actually stopped to think about it.

(February 21, 2015 at 5:57 am)Norman Humann Wrote: ...
The question that bugs me is, do all those priests, pastors and bishops really believe the bullshit they're preaching or did they just get a neat deal of deceiving the gullible and making money off of it?

I don't think anybody has discussed your last point, so I quoted it.

There is a book called "Caught in the Pulpit" about priests and pastors who no longer believe in Christianity but feel trapped in the clergy. That book claims that the education in seminaries often plants the seeds of doubt - just as Bart Ehrman lost faith after he studied Christianity in detail.

It's hard to know how many clergy are secretly atheists. I'm almost certain that my Orthodox priest was an atheist.

ALSO, it's interesting how many "false" gospels existed so early in history. These gospels were written by Christians. That suggests to me that many early Christians understood the gospels to be religious fiction conveying deeper truths.

One problem with debating Christians is that atheist take serious their assertion that they believe their god is an omnipotent being. I don't think Christians really believe their god is all powerful or there would be no discussion of the rules that god has to follow. If he is all powerful rules of nature do not apply to him

Wouldn't it be like saying that you can fly but you have to follow the rules of human anatomy so you don't?

(February 22, 2015 at 7:43 am)Norman Humann Wrote: What sin has an infant committed?

You're just preaching. In order for any of your claims to be valid, you need to believe in god in the first place.

First of all I don't believe in baptizing infants.

secondly, I'm not making any claims, you're the one who started the thread, I'm answering your knuckleheaded question.

The cycle continues, ask Christians about their beliefs, then bring up the fact that you don't believe in God when you get an answer...

What I don't get is, why are you wasting you time talking about a subject you "don't believe in"? no life?

Are you subscribed to a harry potter (as you guys like to put it) forum also?

(February 22, 2015 at 11:31 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(February 22, 2015 at 7:43 am)Norman Humann Wrote: What sin has an infant committed?

You're just preaching. In order for any of your claims to be valid, you need to believe in god in the first place.

First of all I don't believe in baptizing infants.

secondly, I'm not making any claims, you're the one who started the thread, I'm answering your knuckleheaded question.

Oh but you're not answering my knuckleheaded question. What kind of sin has an infant committed? Whether you 'believe' in baptising infants is irrelevant.

You are making claims. Like this one:

(February 22, 2015 at 6:49 am)Huggy74 Wrote: The rules God has set spiritually, parallels the very same rules found in nature, and seeing how he is the creator of both, this shouldn't be surprising.

Or this one:

(February 22, 2015 at 6:49 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Likewise there shall be a new earth and guess what? It has to be born in the same manner.

It received it's water baptism through the flood, God himself spilled his blood upon it, finally it will receive it's baptism by fire.

Or this one:

(February 22, 2015 at 6:49 am)Huggy74 Wrote: The spiritual and natural realm abide by the same principles.

(February 22, 2015 at 11:31 am)Huggy74 Wrote: The cycle continues, ask Christians about their beliefs, then bring up the fact that you don't believe in God when you get an answer...

I didn't answer your post with the fact that I don't believe in god. I stated that in order for any of your claims about god to be valid, you have to already believe in him.

(February 22, 2015 at 11:31 am)Huggy74 Wrote: What I don't get is, why are you wasting you time talking about a subject you "don't believe in"? no life?

Are you subscribed to a harry potter (as you guys like to put it) forum also?

Precisely, no life at all I haven't considered signing up, since I'm not a big Harry Potter fan, but can you recommend any?