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March 2, 2015 at 2:50 pm (This post was last modified: March 2, 2015 at 2:50 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(March 2, 2015 at 2:33 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote: @Huggy
Highly educated people more in tune with the awareness of their ignorance. That being said, they get frustrated easily when less educated pretend to know things that they just don't know. You say that highly educated people tend to be arrogant, and that may be your experience. It certainly is not mine. Perhaps that is just your perception? It seems possible that maybe you feel this way because your ideas are often criticized by highly educated people, and when this offends you, its easier to mistake their criticism for arrogance? Highly educated people tend to be more aware of when they are limited by their own ignorance. I can't say that lesser educated people demonstrate the same quality in their behavior. This sounds like the perfect formula for someone to get their feelings hurt...
Starting at 40:40
And I quote.
Quote:In my mind this answers this crazy question that religious people always keep throwing out which is "why is there something rather than nothing", the answer is there had to be, if you have nothing in quantum mechanics you always get something.
(March 2, 2015 at 2:11 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: No
God deals in simplicity.
How is choosing words that convey the exact opposite of the intended message simpler than simply stating the message in straightforward language that it's impossible to misconstrue?
Quote:Highly educated people tend to be arrogant, you know, thinking they can explain the beginning of the universe and things of that nature.
... But you, claiming to know the beginnings of the universe in exacting detail based on no evidence, are somehow being humble?
Quote:If you drop a needle, the best way to find it is to get on your knees and look for it, you find God the same way.
It's that simple...
If you drop a needle, you know the needle's there beforehand. Are you therefore suggesting that the best way to find god is to presuppose that there's a god there beforehand?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
March 2, 2015 at 3:11 pm (This post was last modified: March 2, 2015 at 3:12 pm by watchamadoodle.)
(March 2, 2015 at 1:09 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: As far as Adam and Eve existing for billions of years, the bible isn't clear, but i suppose it's possible for the fact that time/death didn't exist for them until they partook of the "forbidden fruit", and no mention is made of how much time passed between their creation and the original sin.
The thing is, were not required to try to explain everything about the bible, Just believe it.
I thought that was an interesting idea that Drich had (starting the 6000 years from Adam and Eve's expulsion from paradise).
Even though there might be DNA evidence for a most recent common male and female ancestor, I believe that these individuals would have existed within a community of genetically similar humans. Also the DNA evidence doesn't place the male and female ancestor at the same time. (Although there might be a less recent common male or female ancestor to make a Adam and Eve.)
Anyway, even if there was an Adam and Eve ~50,000 years ago, what made them suddenly in the image of God? I have seen a suggestion on a Catholic website that Adam and Eve were the first humans to have a soul, original sin, etc. Is that what you think? (Of course you are not required to explain - just believe - as you said. )
March 2, 2015 at 4:01 pm (This post was last modified: March 2, 2015 at 4:03 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(March 2, 2015 at 3:11 pm)watchamadoodle Wrote: Anyway, even if there was an Adam and Eve ~50,000 years ago, what made them suddenly in the image of God? I have seen a suggestion on a Catholic website that Adam and Eve were the first humans to have a soul, original sin, etc. Is that what you think? (Of course you are not required to explain - just believe - as you said. )
Interestingly enough, man was created on the sixth day, but Adam was created after the seventh day. This would seem like a contradiction but it's not, the only way to interpret scripture is with scripture.
Quote:John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
So if God is a spirit, then to be made in his image is to be made a spirit being. All mankind (this includes you) was created at this point and existed in the same manner that the angels existed, as spirits.
Quote:Job 38
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Adam was not the first man to be created, but the first to be given a BODY. The body is not you, but the life force/spirit (or what ever you want to call it) within the body is who you are, which is why Jesus always compared the body to a building.
Quote:John 2
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Also
Quote:2 Corinthians 5
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
March 2, 2015 at 4:06 pm (This post was last modified: March 2, 2015 at 4:07 pm by FatAndFaithless.)
Wow, humans were originally magic angel-spirits? Now I've heard everything.
I also love the "it looks like it's a contradiction, but it's not, because of some other part of the same claim from which I can laboriously extrude a convenient explanation and wipe my hands of any semblance of logic".
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
(March 2, 2015 at 4:06 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Wow, humans were originally magic angel-spirits? Now I've heard everything.
I also love the "it looks like it's a contradiction, but it's not, because of some other part of the same claim from which I can laboriously extrude a convenient explanation and wipe my hands of any semblance of logic".
If you read the Bible, clearly after God made man in the first chapter it states clearly in the second chapter.
Quote:Genesis 2
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
In other words, there was not a physical human being on the earth.
(March 2, 2015 at 4:11 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: If you read the Bible, clearly after God made man in the first chapter it states clearly in the second chapter.
Quote:Genesis 2
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
In other words, there was not a physical human being on the earth.
So, wait: god's so bad at communicating that he says six days when he means some other unit of time, but just now, a few passages later, he's this exacting communicator just conveniently at the moment that's most convenient for your argument?
So basically you're taking the bible as this swinging pendulum of literal and figurative language, so that whatever you believe happens to be the True Reading of the book, while at the same time taking whatever authority you can from it for yourself.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
March 2, 2015 at 4:43 pm (This post was last modified: March 2, 2015 at 5:05 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(March 2, 2015 at 4:27 pm)Esquilax Wrote:
(March 2, 2015 at 4:11 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: If you read the Bible, clearly after God made man in the first chapter it states clearly in the second chapter.
In other words, there was not a physical human being on the earth.
So, wait: god's so bad at communicating that he says six days when he means some other unit of time, but just now, a few passages later, he's this exacting communicator just conveniently at the moment that's most convenient for your argument?
The Bible has existed long before my "argument"...
And to answer your question, Jesus (The Word of God made flesh) has always confused people with his speech.
Quote:John 11
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Quote:John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
March 2, 2015 at 5:20 pm (This post was last modified: March 2, 2015 at 5:23 pm by The Reality Salesman01.)
(March 2, 2015 at 2:50 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:
(March 2, 2015 at 2:33 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote: @Huggy
Highly educated people more in tune with the awareness of their ignorance. That being said, they get frustrated easily when less educated pretend to know things that they just don't know. You say that highly educated people tend to be arrogant, and that may be your experience. It certainly is not mine. Perhaps that is just your perception? It seems possible that maybe you feel this way because your ideas are often criticized by highly educated people, and when this offends you, its easier to mistake their criticism for arrogance? Highly educated people tend to be more aware of when they are limited by their own ignorance. I can't say that lesser educated people demonstrate the same quality in their behavior. This sounds like the perfect formula for someone to get their feelings hurt...
Starting at 40:40
And I quote.
Quote:In my mind this answers this crazy question that religious people always keep throwing out which is "why is there something rather than nothing", the answer is there had to be, if you have nothing in quantum mechanics you always get something.
You don't consider that to be arrogance?
No, I don't. When I take into consideration that he has had to provide answers such as those to a population of people who not only continue to think the answer is "magic", they can't even comprehend why his answers make sense as an alternative. Hell, there's probably few of us on this forum who could. Its amazing to me that people like Krauss, Degrasse Tyson, Dawkins, and other professionals are able to refrain from using pejoratives and continue calling them "religious people". I think it's arrogant to presume that a really old text written by primitive men have all the answers, and I think it's foolish not to acknowledge the wisdom being offered by modern day Physicists, Astronomers, and Biological Scientists. The religious have a sense of arrogance that these well-learned people couldn't dream of achieving, because scientist are always searching for knowldege and the search presupposes the existence of that which is unknown. The religious people think they have all the answers and call it arrogance when those bad answers have to be continuously pointed out by those who take the time to learn.
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