(March 16, 2015 at 2:23 pm)robvalue Wrote: OK. Well, there's not much more I can say then. I hope your faith makes you happy If you are interested in a frank discussion about it in the future, I'll be happy to oblige.

Appreciate it. I'm sure we'll butt heads again.

I know that you take what I say seriously, and that makes conversation with you so much more worthwhile than with most other theists. I'm getting to the point where I can barely be bothered replying to most of them now, I'm sad to say. I may as well talk to a magic 8 ball.

I'd love to have meaningful discussion with all of them, but they make it impossible

Hey, Huggies. Are you ever going to address this?!?

(March 12, 2015 at 5:25 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote:

(March 12, 2015 at 12:37 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: At least you acknowledge it as a theory.

I know you'll ignore this as you've ignored everything else I've said that you've been unable to refute, but I'll try anyway...

Scientific theories are not (as you faithers would have us believe) on par with guessing. "But, it's just a theory!!!1!11!!!"

No, a scientific theory is the framework upon which the facts pertaining to said theory are hung.

Gravity is a fact.
Germs that spread disease are a fact.
Evolution is a fact.

Gravitational theory is how we explain our understating of how gravity works.
Germ theory is how we explain our understating of how germs spread disease.
Evolutionary theory is how we explain our understating of how evolution works.

Please stop using the word theory in a scientific context as if it means "wild assed guess." It makes you look so incredibly ignorant that many will refuse to take you seriously.

Or, are you so stupid that you put germ theory and gravitational theory on the same "it's just a wild assed guess" level as you do evolutionary theory?!?

Or this?

(March 12, 2015 at 5:25 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote:

(March 12, 2015 at 1:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: It clearly states that each animal is to be brought forth after their kind (species)

The Bible supports evolution, just not the idea that all creatures evolved from a single point.

The buy-bull also puts bats with the birds.

(March 16, 2015 at 6:21 am)robvalue Wrote: Are you saying that all eye witness testimony is true?

I saw David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear. Should I write a bible and declare David, god? After all, I am an eyewitness to a miracle.

(March 16, 2015 at 7:02 pm)IATIA Wrote:

(March 16, 2015 at 6:21 am)robvalue Wrote: Are you saying that all eye witness testimony is true?

I saw David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear. Should I write a bible and declare David, god? After all, I am an eyewitness to a miracle.

I'm just went through the records, and yes. According to history, that's exactly what you should do. You could make a killing too! Look at those Mormons? Some idiots will believe anything!

(March 15, 2015 at 8:37 pm)Lek Wrote: If it was proven that the authors of the gospels were Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, would you then believe the christian message?

No. You'd have to demonstrate the existence of your god, and his avatar in Jesus being resurrected.

(March 16, 2015 at 4:53 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Hey, Huggies. Are you ever going to address this?!?

Since the conversation moved back on topic, I felt responding to the previous posts would probably be seen as "derailing" the thread, so I chose to leave it alone.
I'll answer you, but first let me address Chief Muppet #1

(March 13, 2015 at 3:37 am)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(March 12, 2015 at 1:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/species
Full Definition of SPECIES
1 a : kind, sort

Pretty sure that is 1) not the entire definition, and 2) not what science regards as a species.

Dumbfuck.

The word "species" has been around since the 14th century, whether or not science regards that as the definition is irrelevant. Scientists don't get carte blanche to redefine a word.

(March 12, 2015 at 5:25 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: I know you'll ignore this as you've ignored everything else I've said that you've been unable to refute, but I'll try anyway...

Scientific theories are not (as you faithers would have us believe) on par with guessing. "But, it's just a theory!!!1!11!!!"

No, a scientific theory is the framework upon which the facts pertaining to said theory are hung.

Gravity is a fact.
Germs that spread disease are a fact.
Evolution is a fact.

Gravitational theory is how we explain our understating of how gravity works.
Germ theory is how we explain our understating of how germs spread disease.
Evolutionary theory is how we explain our understating of how evolution works.

Please stop using the word theory in a scientific context as if it means "wild assed guess." It makes you look so incredibly ignorant that many will refuse to take you seriously.

Or, are you so stupid that you put germ theory and gravitational theory on the same "it's just a wild assed guess" level as you do evolutionary theory?!?

Aeronautics is a fact, but we don't use theory to explain how an airplane flies.

The first step in the scientific method is observation, as I said one species evolving into a completely different species (meaning unable to produce offspring) has never been observed.

examples of speciation do not count because the definition of species means.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/species

Quote:species
2. Biology. the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species.

meaning "speciation" is just a genetic variation of the same species, that are isolated from breeding with each other.
Developing a new breed of Dog for example is "speciation" by definition.

Yet when it come to humans, many nationalities are genetically different, yet were not considered to have "speciated", why is this? aren't we (according to science) part of the evolutionary process just like the animals?

Humans have been on this planet (again, according to science) 200,000 years, but apparently that's not long enough to develop even a sub species....

(March 16, 2015 at 4:53 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: The buy-bull also puts bats with the birds.

I'm not sure i follow you on this one.

So yet again..Huggy uses definitions and ideas that are not part of the theory of evolution to ask for an example of something that wouldn't be evolution...in order to disprove evolution.

(March 16, 2015 at 10:30 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(March 15, 2015 at 8:37 pm)Lek Wrote: If it was proven that the authors of the gospels were Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, would you then believe the christian message?

No. You'd have to demonstrate the existence of your god, and his avatar in Jesus being resurrected.

If you showed me ANY person that was publicly slaughtered in the way Jesus was alleged to have been killed...stuck them in the ground for a few days, and then let me see his reanimated course pop out of the ground, walk around and talk to people, and then magically float into outer space, I'd give you and your tales a little more latitude.

(March 17, 2015 at 2:44 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Scientists don't get carte blanche to redefine a word.

Uh, I'm pretty sure that they actually do, when they're using the word in a scientific context. Words have different meanings when discussing different things; if you didn't have your dishonest little con game to play, you wouldn't have any issue recognizing this.

Quote:Aeronautics is a fact, but we don't use theory to explain how an airplane flies.

You make this too easy: ever heard of aerodynamic theory? Aeronautics is actually comprised of multiple theories coalesced into a single discipline.

Quote:The first step in the scientific method is observation, as I said one species evolving into a completely different species (meaning unable to produce offspring) has never been observed.

"If I just keep pretending that evolution means something it doesn't mean, then evolution means the thing I think it means, but are wrong about!"

What was it you said about not being allowed to redefine terms? I think uneducated laymen really don't have the right to redefine scientific concepts to suit their presuppositions, Huggy.

Quote:examples of speciation do not count because the definition of species means.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/species

Quote:species
2. Biology. the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species.

Gray Tree Frogs cannot breed with Cope's Gray Tree Frogs, and the one group there split off from the other via autopolyploidy in a short span observable by humans. Am I gonna get a "but they're both still frogs!" line from you, or are you going to actually be honest for once and stick with the definition you yourself have provided?

Quote:Yet when it come to humans, many nationalities are genetically different, yet were not considered to have "speciated", why is this? aren't we (according to science) part of the evolutionary process just like the animals?

The genetic difference between different nationalities is negligible, regardless of your gibbering.