Chad32 Are you saying there is no right and wrong since you say it is subjective? That means what is right for me could be wrong for you based on how we feel at the moment. Also you spoke about truth and it sounds as thought you see it as being objective so what is truth?

robvalue you are assuming that you don't already live life as though God does exist. Therefore you do know He exist but suppress the truth because you would rather live the way you choose, which is sin, than humble yourself and know the true everlasting loving God. So what you could do differently is repent from your sin and agree with God about who he says you are then you will be given the knowledge you what to know about God.

Truth is what can objectively be proven. What is right for me can be wrong for you, and vice versa, for some things. Another way to put it is if someone can say they don't approve of something because of X, but X can be objectively proven to be false, then that person is wrong in their views.

I don't see the point, I classify as Christian anyone who accepts the new testament at least partially and Jesus Christ as a central figure - That's where the etymology and semantics of the word "Christian" ("Christ...") comes from - I know it's debatable and we could be here all day saying how the new and old testament work together but I think following Jesus seems like the essential message and I wouldn't call someone a Christian if they only followed the old testament

Rekeisha: I don't care if God exists, or if it's the God of the bible. I wouldn't live my life any differently from how I do now. "Sin" is just things that upset God. Well, tough. I'm going to live my life as best I can, and if that hurts his feelings, that's really his problem. He should be able to care of himself by now.

I can only live my life as best I can with what appears to me to be real. I'm not going to worry about what any possible imaginary being may think of my actions. I'm going to worry about how my actions affect the people and animals around me, those who I am as certain as I can be are actually real. If "God" doesn't like that, he really is a dick and I don't care what he thinks. If he does like it, then I'm golden

If he's going to punish me for living my life this way, then that's up to him. I'm not going to grovel at his feet and beg him not to.

Rob you are absolutely right you don't care if God exist. That is why you do live the life you live because you don't want him. See your sin is not God's problem but He made it His problem. That is why even though you weren't even born He had you and your sin in mind, when He took your punishment on the cross. (rom 5:8) You are still His enemy but He loves you and wants a relationship with you. He knows you don't want Him or truly seek Him (rom 3:10). Still He is gracious and slow to anger so that He may grant you repentance, and through agreeing with Him you will not die in your sin but come to a knowledge of Him. The truth is one way or another God will deal with you sin. He is loving and gracious and died for you and is sending people to be in your life to tell you about his gracious gift. If you choose to cling to your sin or live your life with out acknowledging Him then he will send you to hell. That is not what He wants for you but if you will not allow Him to help you live a better life than the one you live then He will give you justice. It is not a light thing to disregard the true and living God. He will not be mocked and you will get what you deserve if you choose to reject His gift of grace. I am not treating you I am warning you. You should pray to God that he will change your heart and mind so that you can repent and accept his death on the cross.

Chad so if I am understanding you correctly when you say right and wrong you are speaking of morals and some morals can be true which means they apply to everyone or they that moral is an absolute.

I seriously doubt that Rob has done something so bad that the punishment entails both someone he didn't know being tortured and killed via crucifixion and the promise of eternal torment in hell.

That's one of the huge issues I take with Christianity. Not only are humans flawed (which I think everyone will acknowledge), but we're so bad that god cursed the entire species for thousands of years due to the relatively benign actions of just two, then decided to send a part of himself to be sacrificed because we suck so badly... even though it wasn't a real sacrifice because he went back up to himself a few years later. And despite that action, a fiery, tortuous eternal afterlife await those that simply don't worship the guy.

Well, who would worship that? I mean, really. For all of these flowery platitudes about god being loving and caring and gracious, the tales in the bible paint a very different story. There, he's a capricious tyrant who can only be soothed by blood and sacrifice. And, shit, even in your sales pitch, you still break out the brimstone. Believe in him, or you'll be sorry.

No. Just, no. If such a creature exists, it does not warrant worship. The idea of eternal punishment for finite crimes is blatantly immoral, doubly so when apparently the greatest misdeed one can do is simply, and reasonably, not acknowledge that the thing exists due to a lack of compelling evidence.

God wants a relationship with us? Howabout he fucking shows himself, plainly, and without any of his 'mysterious ways' BS? He should be powerful enough to do that, right? Wise and gracious enough to stop playing these peek-a-boo games?

So you're threatening me with eternal torture if I don't do what you say, huh Rek? Do you think that is a civilised way to behave?

Oh right, GOD is going to do it, not you, you're just here to deliver his threat. Sorry to disappoint you but he's imaginary, and you are the one threatening me. Lucky for you, I don't take it seriously, it's a joke. But you should really think what it says about you that you're trying to blackmail someone into your belief system using torture threats. One of us is not on the level, I wonder who?

I will mock his imaginary monkey stupid worthless dumbfuck ass till the day I die.

(April 14, 2015 at 3:56 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: Rob you are absolutely right you don't care if God exist. That is why you do live the life you live because you don't want him. See your sin is not God's problem but He made it His problem. That is why even though you weren't even born He had you and your sin in mind, when He took your punishment on the cross. (rom 5:8) You are still His enemy but He loves you and wants a relationship with you. He knows you don't want Him or truly seek Him (rom 3:10). Still He is gracious and slow to anger so that He may grant you repentance, and through agreeing with Him you will not die in your sin but come to a knowledge of Him. The truth is one way or another God will deal with you sin. He is loving and gracious and died for you and is sending people to be in your life to tell you about his gracious gift. If you choose to cling to your sin or live your life with out acknowledging Him then he will send you to hell. That is not what He wants for you but if you will not allow Him to help you live a better life than the one you live then He will give you justice. It is not a light thing to disregard the true and living God. He will not be mocked and you will get what you deserve if you choose to reject His gift of grace. I am not treating you I am warning you. You should pray to God that he will change your heart and mind so that you can repent and accept his death on the cross.

There are a few things about this preachy bullshit that never cease to amaze me:

1. The assumption that we've never heard this before.
2. It always comes across like a childhood bogeyman story.
3. The fact that the almighty wants a personal relationship, but is too shy to cut the ice without some idiot regurgitating a failed 2000 year old pickup line.
4. The ensuing indignation after being told to get fucked for the veiled threat.

Oh yeah, grow up. If you are incapable of this please feel free to fuck off.

I would say that sin is Yahweh's problem, because sin is things he doesn't like. He is so intolerant of people having different beliefs that he can't stand being around anyone that's different from him. Why would I want to pray that he changes me? It seems he's the one that needs changing.

Yahweh needs a good stiff dick in his bum.