Saint Agenda. Sounds like a venereal disease.

(April 15, 2015 at 3:09 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: Perhaps the greatest scientist of all time is Isaac Newton he believed the universe was knowable and could be explained mathematically precisely because he believed an intelligent agent created the universe. Below is the law of gravitation. Newton didn't invent this law, he discovered it. Mindless forces according to atheists some how produced this law that allows us to predict the orbit of planets and other celestial bodies. And they produced a host of other laws that are the basis for today's technology and for our existence. This is just one of many laws and formula's we have uncovered through observation and experimentation. But we didn't invent them or cause them to exist. They were there waiting to be discovered. This would be akin to going to a network closet that was put together by children who had no idea how to design a network and discover they put one together that not only worked, but there was logic and reason to how it was put together.


This in part is why its ludicrous for atheists to claim there is no evidence in support of theism.

You are aware that Newton's law is not correct, right? It's only an approximation.

(March 7, 2015 at 10:12 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Atheism isn't a growing movement because it isn't a movement at all. It's a belief. Not organized and not well funded. It is growing however. Just about every poll backs that up.

Over the years I have grown to hate the word "belief" regarding any label. 

"Beliefs" are merely positions a person holds. 

When someone says "I am a Christian" it isn't like you can draw their blood, extract their DNA and find a "Christian gene". So what they are really saying is "I hold the position that the Christian god is the one true god". 

When I say "I am an atheist" again it isn't like you can extract my DNA and find an "Atheist" gene. So the reality is that it is merely my position that there is no god.

The only thing that all 7 billion humans can say that we all have in common is "I am a human" and that we can extract DNA to prove we are homo sapiens.

Our boarders an politics religions social norms are merely what we buy into because of what we are used to.

(April 22, 2015 at 5:07 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Saint Agenda.  Sounds like a venereal disease.

See what atheist saints get?

Waiter: "Excuse me sir, did you call me a saint?"

Me: "No! I said 'saint what I ordered."

(April 22, 2015 at 5:17 pm)Alex K Wrote:

(April 15, 2015 at 3:09 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: Perhaps the greatest scientist of all time is Isaac Newton he believed the universe was knowable and could be explained mathematically precisely because he believed an intelligent agent created the universe. Below is the law of gravitation. Newton didn't invent this law, he discovered it. Mindless forces according to atheists some how produced this law that allows us to predict the orbit of planets and other celestial bodies. And they produced a host of other laws that are the basis for today's technology and for our existence. This is just one of many laws and formula's we have uncovered through observation and experimentation. But we didn't invent them or cause them to exist. They were there waiting to be discovered. This would be akin to going to a network closet that was put together by children who had no idea how to design a network and discover they put one together that not only worked, but there was logic and reason to how it was put together.


This in part is why its ludicrous for atheists to claim there is no evidence in support of theism.

You are aware that Newton's law is not correct, right? It's only an approximation.

Yes I am. Einstein and others noticed a slight discrepancy and subsequently he formulated his theory of general relativity. The point is we observe ourselves in a universe that according to atheists came into existence without the benefit of a designer or engineer and yet the universe operates unswervingly by laws of physics that are discoverable, are amenable to scientific inquiry and explicable in mathematical formulas, are uniform throughout the universe and make prediction and deduction possible. Is this what anyone would expect or predict if our universe was the result of mindless mechanistic that didn't intend any specific thing to happen? Would it be surprising if a universe came into existence without the benefit of intelligence design or planning that it would be chaotic without any discernible laws of nature and hostile to scientific inquiry? I dare say it wouldn't be surprising but it would be what you'd expect from the source...

(April 24, 2015 at 1:06 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: Yes I am. Einstein and others noticed a slight discrepancy and subsequently he formulated his theory of general relativity. The point is we observe ourselves in a universe that according to atheists came into existence without the benefit of a designer or engineer and yet the universe operates unswervingly by laws of physics that are discoverable, are amenable to scientific inquiry and explicable in mathematical formulas, are uniform throughout the universe and make prediction and deduction possible. Is this what anyone would expect or predict if our universe was the result of mindless mechanistic that didn't intend any specific thing to happen? Would it be surprising if a universe came into existence without the benefit of intelligence design or planning that it would be chaotic without any discernible laws of nature and hostile to scientific inquiry? I dare say it wouldn't be surprising but it would be what you'd expect from the source...

So essentially you're making the claim that predictable patterns are not possible, at least at the universal scale, without a designer... you just want to shift the burden of proof so that everyone else has to prove you wrong.

*sigh*
The universe does not operate by mathematical laws.
Mathematical laws are what we use to describe how the universe operates.

(April 24, 2015 at 1:43 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 24, 2015 at 1:06 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: Yes I am. Einstein and others noticed a slight discrepancy and subsequently he formulated his theory of general relativity. The point is we observe ourselves in a universe that according to atheists came into existence without the benefit of a designer or engineer and yet the universe operates unswervingly by laws of physics that are discoverable, are amenable to scientific inquiry and explicable in mathematical formulas, are uniform throughout the universe and make prediction and deduction possible. Is this what anyone would expect or predict if our universe was the result of mindless mechanistic that didn't intend any specific thing to happen? Would it be surprising if a universe came into existence without the benefit of intelligence design or planning that it would be chaotic without any discernible laws of nature and hostile to scientific inquiry? I dare say it wouldn't be surprising but it would be what you'd expect from the source...

So essentially you're making the claim that predictable patterns are not possible, at least at the universal scale, without a designer... you just want to shift the burden of proof so that everyone else has to prove you wrong.

I bet if we couldn't work things out that would be proof of god too.

(April 24, 2015 at 1:06 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote:

(April 22, 2015 at 5:17 pm)Alex K Wrote: You are aware that Newton's law is not correct, right? It's only an approximation.

Yes I am. Einstein and others noticed a slight discrepancy and subsequently he formulated his theory of general relativity. The point is we observe ourselves in a universe that according to atheists came into existence without the benefit of a designer or engineer and yet the universe operates unswervingly by laws of physics that are discoverable, are amenable to scientific inquiry and explicable in mathematical formulas, are uniform throughout the universe and make prediction and deduction possible. Is this what anyone would expect or predict if our universe was the result of mindless mechanistic that didn't intend any specific thing to happen? Would it be surprising if a universe came into existence without the benefit of intelligence design or planning that it would be chaotic without any discernible laws of nature and hostile to scientific inquiry? I dare say it wouldn't be surprising but it would be what you'd expect from the source...

Actually, it appears as though many laws are not uniform, for instance at the edge of and inside of black holes, scientists suspect the laws change.

In answer to the bolded question, yes, it is what we would expect to see, because it is what we do see.

Addressing the rest, as someone already pointed out, the laws and maths we use to describe the universe are TOOLS, the universe is not made up of these laws or maths.