I think the figures for Islam growing are blown out of proportion

Firstly, people who leave Islam or dissent from Islam are heavily stigmatised within their communities. Considering this, surely there must be a lot of Muslims who want to leave the religion but actually can't? If you take into consideration the amount of Muslims who are Muslim in name-only, but don't practice, I think the figures would be much smaller. There are quite a lot of Muslims my age who aren't really that into it, who "break the rules" or want a secular form of the religion.

The figures for Christianity are also trumped up too. nobody my age (early 20s) in the UK regularly goes to church, literally nobody, I don't know anyone my age who seriously practices Christianity anymore. Because they were raised Christian though, they'll still identify as Christian, even though nothing about their lifestyle is in accordance with the faith. The same is true for a lot of young Muslims too, even if they are still practicing the religion it may only be because of pressure from their families. One of my friends was raised Muslim and is a gay atheist, but he won't dare tell his family that.

I feel like "irreligious" best describes these kind of people, they may still have a casual or questioning belief in God, or may not believe in him. They may not associate with the "atheist" label, because "atheist" is still quite a charged term that, to many people, has political themes. "Irreligious" better describes their passiveness. I think the figure for atheists is far higher and both religions lower.

Christianity is dead in the UK.
How the collapse presents itself varies from denomination to denomination but all are now in the terminal phases of the process.
Anglicans and Catholics are closing parish churches and falling back on the cathedrals like the iconoclasts they are.
Methodists are abandoning their "moral" positions regarding gambling and surviving churches hold weekly bingo sessions to maintain income.
Baptists imploded and went through some of schism with more hard-line elements forcing moderates out and establishing new churches which for a while gave a facade of growth before economic reality hit and the new churches are dropping like flies.

Islam presents something of a difficult picture due to the threats from family members for apostasy which are difficult to escape from in the ghetto conditions which muslims tend to form in cities. Once individuals move out of those conditions apostasy is as rife as with christianity.
The question is how to break up those ghettos.

Developed countries have operatives which ensure that these stupid fringes don't get out of hand... either working from the inside, or on the overall public opinion.
Would the british government really unwittingly allow muslim communities to impose their own law on significant parts of the country?

There will be a cap on muslim growth in developed countries as the pressures mount on how to treat children, cost increases proportionally to the number of children, child labor is illegal; kids will want their xboxes and playstations and PCs and iphones and wireless internet anywhere and games, and tv, and books.... books will make them learn, become educated and become integrated... if not straight on this first wave of immigrants, then their children or their children's children. Children will see the barbarism of shariah and move away from it.
It's inevitable.
Their numbers will stop growing out of control and only a few fringe idiots will continue with the lunacy... like a few fringe idiots continue with the lunacy of christianity.... not so fringe in parts of the US, or so I'm told!

(June 11, 2015 at 8:39 am)pocaracas Wrote: Developed countries have operatives which ensure that these stupid fringes don't get out of hand... either working from the inside, or on the overall public opinion.
Would the british government really unwittingly allow muslim communities to impose their own law on significant parts of the country?

There will be a cap on muslim growth in developed countries as the pressures mount on how to treat children, cost increases proportionally to the number of children, child labor is illegal; kids will want their xboxes and playstations and PCs and iphones and wireless internet anywhere and games, and tv, and books.... books will make them learn, become educated and become integrated... if not straight on this first wave of immigrants, then their children or their children's children. Children will see the barbarism of shariah and move away from it.
It's inevitable.
Their numbers will stop growing out of control and only a few fringe idiots will continue with the lunacy... like a few fringe idiots continue with the lunacy of christianity.... not so fringe in parts of the US, or so I'm told!

In the UK, there are some potential barriers to that progress: 

1. If poverty continues to worsen, we'll see people get increasingly stressed by life and more desperate for survival. Stressed and desperate religious people often turn to the fundamentals of their religions as a coping mechanism. When the fundamentals are as inhumane as those of Islam, that might cause problems in wider society.

2. Poor housing policy and provision has caused ghettoisation of certain communities, the anglo-arabic communities are amongst those who suffer from this form of indirect social exclusion. When this is combined with education policies which prevent children from experiencing broader society, an environment is created in which ignorance and xenophobia can result, on both sides of the divide. Common behaviour of marginalised groups includes promotion of cultural stagnancy, mistrust of government and social self-exclusion. This would be an excellent garden in which to grow religious fundamentalism.

Ghettos exist everywhere...
We have gypsies, here in Portugal... a part of their culture doesn't require that kids go to school.... but portuguese law mandates that all children go to school... and attend regularly... or else, subsidies stop. You wouldn't believe at how educated the gypsies are becoming! Still, it will take a generation or two until it's really felt.

Where does the money to support these muslim ghettos come from? People have to eat and ghettos don't tend to have a lot of arable land.

(June 11, 2015 at 9:13 am)pocaracas Wrote: Ghettos exist everywhere...
We have gypsies, here in Portugal... a part of their culture doesn't require that kids go to school.... but portuguese law mandates that all children go to school... and attend regularly... or else, subsidies stop. You wouldn't believe at how educated the gypsies are becoming! Still, it will take a generation or two until it's really felt.

Where does the money to support these muslim ghettos come from? People have to eat and ghettos don't tend to have a lot of arable land.

I didn't see that happening, is it a Lisbon phenomenon? 

(June 11, 2015 at 9:15 am)Dystopia Wrote:

(June 11, 2015 at 9:13 am)pocaracas Wrote: Ghettos exist everywhere...
We have gypsies, here in Portugal... a part of their culture doesn't require that kids go to school.... but portuguese law mandates that all children go to school... and attend regularly... or else, subsidies stop. You wouldn't believe at how educated the gypsies are becoming! Still, it will take a generation or two until it's really felt.

Where does the money to support these muslim ghettos come from? People have to eat and ghettos don't tend to have a lot of arable land.

I didn't see that happening, is it a Lisbon phenomenon? 

Maybe.... Bairro da Boavista, close to Benfica, where I live...
Gypsy kids go to school. their manners leave something to be desired, but they do go to school and some of them do really well.