Why is Faith/Belief a Moral Issue?

[abaris]

No one claims that Christians are any better than anyone else, only that no one on their own is good enough. All have fallen short etc etc. Faith in the Lordship of Jesus Christ is recognition that there is a higher moral authority than Man.

Yet there are some that make that claim. And I don't think that Jesus is showing a higher moral authority than man. Not according to Luke 14:26.

If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.

And now you can do the mental acrobatics of telling me this is to be taken allegorical.

[Cato]

This other way is atonement.

This is the most significant reason why the Christian system of morality is corrupt, and I'm being kind. According to your view of things I can treat the rest of humanity terribly along the way, but go to heaven as long as I make a sincere deathbed conversion with requisite atonement.

I had better moral sense when I was in kindergarten.

[Cato]

And now you can do the mental acrobatics of telling me this is to be taken allegorical.

No, no, no. This one isn't an allegory; it's a parable.

[Rhondazvous]

If my sense of morality came from god, that means my sense that rape, slavery and genocide came from god. How then can Christians claim that scriptures which instruct followers to engage in such acts are based on a higher moral authority?

How can anyone stay sane adhering to notions that fall apart so easily in the light of scrutiny?

[robvalue]

So if God naturally instills us with our morality:

1- Why do our parents need to teach us about it?

2- Why do we need to read it from his book?

3- Why does his book disagree with what we are told he has instilled in us?

4- Why are some people sociopaths? God missed them out? You can't borrow Karma from Buddhism, sorry.

5- Why has everyone been instilled with different ideas about morality? Not even Christians can agree.

At best, this all seems to be a metaphor for the way we learn and are born with certain moral traits. If God did this, he screwed it up really badly.

[Drich]

This other way is atonement.

This is the most significant reason why the Christian system of morality is corrupt, and I'm being kind. According to your view of things I can treat the rest of humanity terribly along the way, but go to heaven as long as I make a sincere deathbed conversion with requisite atonement.

I had better moral sense when I was in kindergarten.

You could... But then you would not have the required love needed to accept the atonement offered. It's a bit of a catch 22.

We are not judged on 'morality/deeds' but on whether or not we have had our sins atoned for. But, at the same time According to Christ's condensation of the Law if we don't have Love for God and for our fellow Man then we can not accept the atonement offered. This is illustrated by Christ himself in several different parables, and even in the Lord's prayer.

It is atonement that makes us worthy before God, but at the same time if we do not Love God with all of our being and our neighbor as our self atonement is not offered.

[Faith No More]

It is atonement that makes us worthy before God, but at the same time if we do not Love God with all of our being and our neighbor as our self atonement is not offered.

Is that what you've been doing here? Loving your neighbor as you love yourself?

It seems to me that if you truly believed that, you would be forced to believe that your own atonement is still out of reach.

[orangebox21]

People reject the Abrahamic deity because there is no evidence such a being exists and theists’ efforts to prove otherwise have not been compelling.

 
By what standard?

Why then is it considered a virtue to psych one’s self out and just believe in things one knows are not true? How is that good?  Why is it a moral failing to stand on one’s intellectual integrity?

Intellectual integrity as you have put it is limited in scope.  There are things we can know, things we might know, things we can know in the future, and things we will never know.  This premise isn't limited to the realm of religious faith.

Ascribing virtue or vice to one’s status as a believer makes as much sense as saying men who eat bananas are good in bed. Let’s look at the proof. Statistics show that men who are good in bed have at some point eaten at least one banana in their lives. So hands down, the proof is irrefutable. And when you consider the phallic shape of bananas, that’s even more proof.

I’m not trying to be funny. Just making a point about the ridiculous assumption that nonbelievers are essentially bad and believers are essentially good. Tell some people you’re an atheist and they automatically assume they know all about you and what you will do.

This is absurd.

It depends upon your definition of good.  Jesus said God alone is good.  If that is true then neither a believer nor an unbeliever is good.  The difference being that believers [having God living within them] can be good, yet it is not them which are good but Christ living within them.  If your defining good as 'gives money to charity' then yes some unbelievers are good while some believers are not.  Yet if a person gives money to charity but does so in order to get a tax break and praise from men [in other words out of a selfish motivation] can that be considered morally good?  What is your definition and standard for what is morally good?

[Drich]

If my sense of morality came from god, that means my sense that rape, slavery and genocide came from god. How then can Christians claim that scriptures which instruct followers to engage in such acts are based on a higher moral authority?

How can anyone stay sane adhering to notions that fall apart so easily in the light of scrutiny?

Because things like rape, slavery, Genocide have no intrinsic moral value in of themselves. Meaning before God these acts are netural. What makes them ok or not ok is what God says about them/The situation that they are wrong or permissible.

For instance we/pop culture says Genocide is always bad. Now God says Genocide is a sin unless he commands it. (which has been done for several thousand years.) How can He then permit Genocide? Because He is in a position to know whether or not a person/people will be responsible for the premature destruction of this world.

Think about it. In OT times God's primary focus was the preservation of a single blood line in Israel so as His Son could be born and save the world from sin. If Israel was destroyed prematurally, or that blood line was somehow corrupt and prophesy could not be full filled, then their would be no hope for humanity. Per the example found in revelation when the cup of man's iniquity is full, God puts an end to Man's reign.

So the question then becomes, end one people? Or end the whole race?

[Drich]

It is atonement that makes us worthy before God, but at the same time if we do not Love God with all of our being and our neighbor as our self atonement is not offered.

Is that what you've been doing here?  Loving your neighbor as you love yourself?

It seems to me that if you truly believed that, you would be forced to believe that your own atonement is still out of reach.

Absolutely! I am giving the exact same attention I would want if I were/when I was lost. Even if it meant to shake me up a little bit to help me see the pride standing between me and God.

Love is not the hippy feel good about yourself and everything everyone else feels crap that is destroying this nation, Love is to do whatever it takes as long as it takes to effect real change.