The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work

[Rekeisha]

What's really mind-boggling about all of this, Rekeisha, is that you want us to take your personal experience as evidence of your claims and accept your personal testimony about what you believe, but you won't accept our personal testimony about what we believed and felt while we were Christians, and you wouldn't accept the personal testimony, visions, prophecies, miracles, or texts of other religions as evidence of their claims. It's pure hypocrisy.


Your religion is not the only one where people feel their prayers have been answered. There are whole scientific studies devoted to prayer, and what science finds is that it has no impact on what a person actually experiences, only how they perceive what they experience. Theists experience and survive hardship and illness at the same rate as the rest of the human population, with or without prayer.


Your religion is not the only one with prophets who see visions and relate the words of their respective deities. All religions have visions and prophecies, and all those visions and prophecies have roughly the same success rate as Christian ones (which is to say their success rate is appallingly low).


Your religion is not the only one that claims miraculous behavior concerning their mythical characters. Various religions make claims about ancient and modern miracles (mostly faith-healings and various deities showing up in stains and toast burns and shit). They all have the same level of evidence (which is to say none), and they all have the same general theme in terms of the gods being much, much more obvious and powerful when there are no cameras and scientists around to see them do this shit, then once modern documentation shows up all they can do is show up in paint spills and use the placebo effect to make people feel a little better while they get over a cold. What, did they all start running out of magic points or something?


Your religion is not the only one whose adherents claim scientific revelation and accuracy in its texts. Muslims are particularly well known for trying to do the same gymnastics with the Koran, and it all amounts to force-fitting texts to science under the presupposition that the Bible is true.



Your religion is not the only one whose adherents insist that their personal experience, perception, revelations, and testimony should be accepted as evidence of the claims they believe. Every religion does that. Every single religion says, "Oh, you just have to experience this for yourself, and then you'll know, and if you don't believe it, you haven't truly experienced it." Every...fucking...religion...does this.


If you applied your current standard of evidence to all the other religions, you would believe in all those, too. You don't, though. You only apply that standard of evidence to other religions and to atheism, while reserving your own beliefs as a special case because it's your own personal experience it's based on and not someone else's. You're a hypocrite.


Sin is not real. Your Gaud is not real. He cannot save you or me because he does not exist, and there is no Hell to save us from.

I believe you thougt you were a christian. If you look back then you will see I wrote that I believed you.

Also your statments of religins are an over generlization. If the studies that you are kind of referncing treated them in the same manner I am dubious of their findings.

I don't feel like prayers are fulfilled they have been fulfilled specifically. There are christians who keep prayer books in order to track their full fillment.

Also all those who say they are a theist don't all believe in God. I would say in america a lot of people give a mental nod to God but have never accpeted Him as their Lord and savior.

i am not mad or angry that you don't believe my testemony because it isn't my job to get you to believe. I am not here to promote myself I am just a person. My job is to testify about the truth and pray for you. I do both. God love you and everyone on this forum and everyone on the planet so much that He gave His only begotten Son. He lived a sinless life and died a humlitating and paiful death in order to free you Mr. Redbeard from your sin. If you repent He will give you everlasting life and free you from the bonds of sin. That is the truth no matter how you feel about it.

[Rekeisha]

Redbeard, that outstanding analysis deserves a waffle. It's not a Welcome Waffle™... it's just tasty-and-good.

A blue waffle for my pink brother-in-intellect:

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If I dress up like a man that doesn't make me a man. Being in a group doesn't make you a part of the group. You may feel as though your statments are in cinflict with my belifea but they are not. A christian is someone who knows God and has accepted His death and resserrction on the cross. If you never had a relationship with Him then you were never a christian.

We're trying to tell you exactly that, Rekeisha.

We weren't just "members of a group". We really believed, as firmly as you did, that we were "in a relationship with Jesus Christ, our Savior". We spread the Gospel of the death and resurrection to others, as commanded in the Great Commission. Heck, Redbeard got a giant cross tattoo, as many of the True Believers™ do.

For you to tell us that we were never Christians is deeply insulting and frankly, it makes you a jerk to even think it.

We believed as you do. Now we do not. Get over it, swallow some pride, and get over yourself.

How do you know you believe like I do?

Just because you see me doing what you have done doesn't mean that we have believed the same. Actually there are things that I believe you don't. Like when I say that christianity isn't based on feelings. (People keep talking about believing the bible literally. I am not quite sure what you mean by that.) Those make our beliefes different. You may feel like I am a jerk but the truth is I am here to tell you about a God that loves you and He wants to save you from Hell. How you feel about me doesn't affect the truth.

[Rekeisha]

Also, no one is interested in my "personal experience" of 38 solid years on this planet without seeing the slightest whiff of anything magical, let alone a god or its work.

All I see is stuff happening, and people pointing to it and saying, "X did it!" where X is their favourite imaginary character. I share the same world as them, so if all these things are supposedly happening, I would have seen one by now.

I see people desperately opposing well established scientific theory, even trying to stop it being taught in school, because it contradicts a ridiculous narrative that they cling to.

When someone is blind they don't see what you see and they would be wrong to reject you personal testimony that there really is a sun. It is the same with my testimony about God except that God's invisable qualities can be plainly seen but you supress the truth about God. You can't see what you won't look at.

[Rekeisha]

A christian is not one because of the dos and don'ts they have preforemed. A christian is someone who has accepted Christ death and ressurection for their sins. As a result of this they come in to a right relationship with God. Jesus perfect life (in which He fullfilled all of the law) and His death is accredited to those who believe. So your list is fullfilled in Christ life. I am now free to fullfill the law of christ because I am no longer a slave to sin.

You either don't understand or refuse to understand what a christian is. So I have fullfulled round 1 through my savior Christ Jesus.

Please read my signature (you have to scroll down for the non funny part). Then tell me how you feel about shrimp and Jesus. I'm intrigued, truly, how your savior talks to you. Does he show up in the middle of the night in a white robe? Or does he just tell you what you want to hear whenever you need/want it? Isn't it more reasonable that your god delusion is simply that, a made up voice in your head with all the prerequisite attributes you yourself have given it based upon what you read in a book? I can do that too--I can look at the world through Donald Trumps eyes and shake my head at Obama and presuppose that I'm the single other person on this earth he doesn't think to be an idiot because I have faith in him and I have the "right" color skin. All of which I've gotten simply from reading his 'stance' on things. We humans (and other species!) have developed a profound ability called empathy. It's needed for socialization. As a prior Christian (who indeed actually believed so fervently I denied chemotherapy in place of faith healing), I can honestly say that the voice in my head was just me projecting the god I wanted to be there, not an actual external being. If you have a problem believing that, then you are in denial and I'd suggest beginning with the fundamentals of the god you proclaim to believe in.

If He told me what I wanted to hear I would be asleep right now. My house would always be a mess. I would be a shut in and never speak to my neighbors. I would be divorced and everyone would be against me. Also I would have probably let loose a couple of times on you guys, but probably not because I wouldn't even spend time on this. So no God does not tell me what I want to here. That is why God is good because he tells me what I need to hear and enables me to acomplish His good plan. His death and ressurection has given me a new life and this life is good. I am grateful for all he has done and called me to do. Hr is far better than anything I could ever make up.

Also I am not on my computer and can not see your signature.

[Rekeisha]

I am still none of the things you claim and you still need a savior for your sins.

Oh, you most certainly are:

self-righteous
adjective

1. having or characterized by a certainty, especially an unfounded one, that one is totally correct or morally superior.
   

I'm not sure a person has ever fitted a description more aptly that your fine self.

And Jesus loves you still and has died for your sins so that you may know Him and the power of His ressurection.

[Rekeisha]

Ain't that a bitch, when you realize yOu're the problem, not the solution? When you realize your humility (quote unquote) is really supremecy in sheeps clothing? When you realize that you're nothing without your learned opinions and beliefs (ie: you don't even know who you are without them!)? Must be scary.

Yep. We've all been there. Well, a lot of us have, anyways. Question is whether you'll dig your head farther down into the sand or sit up and smell the fresh breeze.

It was hard to realize that I wasn't as good as I thought I was. That is what made college so difficult.I truly appreciated the fact that Jesus never gave up on me. It is a blessing to be save in such a loving way. I hope you to can understand that one day. I will be praying for you because Jesus shed His blood so that you could be free from sin as well.

[SofaKingHigh]

Oh, you most certainly are:

self-righteous
adjective

1. having or characterized by a certainty, especially an unfounded one, that one is totally correct or morally superior.
   

I'm not sure a person has ever fitted a description more aptly that your fine self.

And Jesus loves you still and has died for your sins so that you may know Him and the power of His ressurection.

I point my learned friend to my avatar.

Have a peachy weekend now.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

How do you know you believe like I do?

Just because you see me doing what you have done doesn't mean that we have believed the same. Actually there are things that I believe you don't. Like when I say that christianity isn't based on feelings. (People keep talking about believing the bible literally. I am not quite sure what you mean by that.) Those make our beliefes different. You may feel like I am a jerk but the truth is I am here to tell you about a God that loves you and He wants to save you from Hell. How you feel about me doesn't affect the truth.

I feel like you're a jerk because you're talking and acting like a jerk. You're telling me that I never was a Christian simply because I am not one now. You're taking how I feel about it now and saying that I could not have felt it, then.

Think about it: if I talk to a divorced person about their husband, would they say he is "the love of their life, the dreamiest man they have ever known, what a fantastic human being?" No, because what they once felt (deeply in love) is no longer how they feel, once they opened their eyes and saw the truth about him. Turned out, the divorcee's spouse was a liar and a cheat, and once the truth became clear, the emotions changed.

What you're saying here is, basically, that because you are so in love with your man, that I must never have been in love because I got divorced. But I was in love before I realized the truth and before I got divorced.

So then if you still tell me I was never in love, then you're a jerk.

[Rhondazvous]

Which on the on before this or one even further up?

How about the one you quoted in the post you made immediately before my complaint?

Note that this is a common deflection tactic used by people playing for time in the hope that the other person will give up out of frustration. If that's what you're doing, forget it.

Sounds like the infinite regression problem. Maybe it will help if they stick god in there somewhere?

[Cyberman]

So hoe did I not answer your question?

Because earlier you said:

And what makes you think it's "God" speaking to you?

God can make His divinity pretty clear. Also everything He has ever told me has been true. Everything He has done has been In His character. Before I ever read the Bible He told me His name and that He was beyond time. He has answered my prayers and the longer I know Him the more I can tell it is Him speaking.

and that this "God"

... is able to use my brain, circumstance, people and the world around me to communicate to me.

So you knew it was this "God" speaking to you even before you read the book. Which is very odd, because you went on to cite the book as "the revealed word of God"; and after I asked why you switched subjects, from your dreams and impressions to a book of mythology, you started telling me that

God's words are not contradictory and His purposes are the same no matter what way He communicates. He has developed the Bible as an easy source to find His words and I have that avalible to me. So I am accountable for knowing what He days through His word.

So I ask again: before you read the book, how did you know that it was the god of that book speaking to you?