Review so far of the Romans study

[jenny1972]

drich so if you dont believe in free will you cant believe in salvation or redemption so god has already chosen the people who are going to heaven and hell are the chosen people can they do anything wrong to not go to heaven or is it all just set ?

[Anomalocaris]

I'm still waiting for drippy to demonstrate that his paul shit is inspired by some fucking god and not merely the heavily edited lunatic ravings of some ancient old fuckhead.

Guess I'll wait a long time, eh?

Waiting for drich to exhibit a reduction in his idiocy demonstrates very poor judgement.

[The Grand Nudger]

drich so if you dont believe in free will you cant believe in salvation or redemption  so god has already chosen the people who are going to heaven and hell are the chosen people can they do anything wrong to not go to heaven or is it all just set ?

Come now. Drich, like you, believes that things can be both "x" and "not-x" simultaneously.  That's all.  

[Drich]

drich so if you dont believe in free will you cant believe in salvation or redemption  so god has already chosen the people who are going to heaven and hell are the chosen people can they do anything wrong to not go to heaven or is it all just set ?

define 'free will'. Or what do you think free will means/Why can't i choose even if I do not have complete "free will?"

[Drich]

I find your romans thread to be entirely uninformative, and less than compelling.  IOW, I think it needs alot of work before you share it elsewhere.  This is probably the only place you wouldn't be drummed out of after having made the comments you did.  Certainly wouldn't fly from the pulpit or in fellowship.  I'd suggest you find someone with a more thorough understanding of the work and be a student, before you play at being the teacher.  There's already enough bullshit masquerading as biblical knowledge in the world, agreed?

Awww. Someone thinks this is about my vanity, so to attack it is what? supposed to shatter my self confidence??

The direction this thread has taken is based solely on the questions I've been asked. The only other input I've offered is a simple out line.
The 'study part' how ever informative or basic has been tailored to you and your peers. (Just because you can stand in the shallow end of the pool does not mean the depth of the pool can not go over you head.)

that said you are right in that this does not make good 'pulpit' material simply because pulpit material is not meant to be challenged/questioned. I leave alot open to question, but that is the point of a forum is it not?

[Drich]

drich so if you dont believe in free will you cant believe in salvation or redemption  so god has already chosen the people who are going to heaven and hell are the chosen people can they do anything wrong to not go to heaven or is it all just set ?

Come now. Drich, like you, believes that things can be both "x" and "not-x" simultaneously.  That's all.  

How can forrest Gump get it and it still be out of the grasp of your understanding?

[loganonekenobi]

Christianity has been a world bully for 1700+ years. Now when we live in a nation of secular freedom. Now the non religious can speak freely without fear of reprisal and we have a lot to say. It is no surprise then that the bully now cries foul and acts like the victim. Further proof that this and all other religions are from the hearts of men not gods.

I have cited many examples of the violence in the name of Christianity and they have been ignored not adressed.

I have given many historical and personal references for the possible reasons for the backlash against Christianity. However like the playground bully you refuse to accept responsibilty.

Let me show you how its done. Yes there have been a few states that have done away with religion. I know that it is hopes of not sharing power with the clergy and because they also see the harm that religion has done

However, I do not support telling anyone they cant have their religious beliefs by law. It is against the freedoms that I went to the military to fight for. Your freedoms are included in that.

There, you see? that is how you do it. As a responcible person that is how you understand the possible flaws in one own way of seeing the world and how the world becomes a better place.

Winning argument (not that you have) will not convince any one to stop being negative to your cause. Kindness, understanding, compasion, and a willingness to understand the other side will.

Does your bible teach that and more importantly can you do it.

I dont care what Paul said in Romans. He is dead. You are not. We count in the here and now.

[Minimalist]

I'm still waiting for drippy to demonstrate that his paul shit is inspired by some fucking god and not merely the heavily edited lunatic ravings of some ancient old fuckhead.

Guess I'll wait a long time, eh?

Waiting for drich to exhibit a reduction in his idiocy demonstrates very poor judgement.

I'm not exactly holding my breath waiting, you know.

[Athene]

I'm still waiting for drippy to demonstrate that his paul shit is inspired by some fucking god and not merely the heavily edited lunatic ravings of some ancient old fuckhead.

Guess I'll wait a long time, eh?

Well, you're probably the rocky soil that simply cannot be tilled.  Drich chooses to not waste his time responding to questions posed by those who hearts are too hardened to accept seed...particularly if their questions are hard as well.

Or maybe he just hasn't gotten around to it.

[Drich]

Christianity has been a world bully for 1700+ years.

where did that number come from? Better yet where did that 'bully' doctrine come from?

 Now when we live in a nation of secular freedom.  Now the non religious can speak freely without fear of reprisal and we have a lot to say.  It is no surprise then that the bully now cries foul and acts like the victim.  Further proof that this and all other religions are from the hearts of men not gods.

Are you even aware of Christian History? it/we have endured persecution from the state/rome in the beginning, and in the darkages from the church, and in the Victorian era from self righteousness, to now from pop culture what you have relabeled 'secular freedom.' When has the Christianity Ruled? Not when has the church ruled, but when has Christianity ruled?

I have cited many examples of the violence in the name of Christianity and they have been ignored not adressed.
I have given many historical and personal references for the possible reasons for the backlash against Christianity. However like the playground bully you refuse to accept responsibilty.

Because you fail to understand that if their is not a command in the bible for those acts, then they can not be attributed to the religion.
I gave you an example of a psychopath killing your family in your name, without consent, provocation or the least amount of approval from you. What inspires the psyco is a desire to do ill, and to simply put responsibility on you, to use you and your name, because for him it is easier to justify those deeds in his own mind. Does this make you guilty of the psyco's actions?

Let me show you how its done.  Yes there have been a few states that have done away with religion.  I know that it is hopes of not sharing power with the clergy and because they also see the harm that religion has done

So China, slaughtering buddhist monks because they would not disbann= Harm to the state?
North Korea slaughtering All Christians they can find because they will not worship the Kim family as God= harm to you?

However, I do not support telling anyone they cant have their religious beliefs by law.  It is against the freedoms that I went to the military to fight for.  Your freedoms are included in that.

mighty white of you, I am forever in your debt!

There, you see? that is how you do it.  As a responcible person that is how you understand the possible flaws in one own way of seeing the world and how the world becomes a better place.

But again, Show the doctrine Show the Book Chapter and Verse that demands we bully anyone into belief or kill people who do not believe. The study we are doing in Romans Specifically tell us not to do what your claiming Christianity is about.

No, BCV means your arguement falls flat on its face when tring to attribute those bad things to Christianity. Those are acts of evil men using this religion to their own gain. That is a simple abuse of power. Or are you saying all North Koreans are evil and always have been and will be Evil because the man in charge abuses his authority, and uses his power for evil purposes?

You are confusing Christianity with Islam. In Islam their are commands to kill maim and destroy those who do not believe. Christianity Biblical Christianity is strongly opposed to those tactics.

Winning argument (not that you have) will not convince any one to stop being negative to your cause.  Kindness, understanding, compasion, and a willingness to understand the other side will.    

Your not actually apart of the discussion are you? What does Romans 1 and 2 tell us?

Does your bible teach that and more importantly can you do it.

I dont care what Paul said in Romans.  He is dead. You are not. We count in the here and now.

then your an fool.
Everything your self righteous heart is demanding of Christianity has already been laid out by Paul as the foundation to the Christian Religion.

That is why I am doing this study. for people like you who think your self righteous approach to the church is not already mandated by our bible. Your 'hate' for Christianity can be isolated to those who have abused the church and it's power in our history, and those who hold to certain doctrines over what the bible actually says today (westbrough baptist ect/Which is the other reason I would not mind seeing a couple of you/The smarter ones arm yourself with actual biblical doctrine, so you can take some of these guys down, using their own kung-fu. That sort of thing can be faith shattering which for people like that is not a bad thing.)

However this is where your self righteousness comes in. Because you assume God demands you live a perfect life and you know you won't/can't it is all to easy for you to simply throw the baby out with the bath water by lumping all Christians together. This allows you to not have to address your fears/in ability to stop sinning directly. Which again the Romans study does speak to directly. If we can get to chapter 7 i think most of you will be surprised to learn what it says. (that we have to stop sinning inorder to be saved. In fact the oppsite is said, we are saved even though God knows we will never stop sinning.)